After IV
What Does God Look Like in My Transition?
 
Podcast Intro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Jon Steele  0:09  
Hey everyone. I'm Jon Steele. And this is After IV: a podcast for InterVarsity alumni. Life after college is hard. And even a great experience with your University chapter doesn't shield you from the challenges of transition. As we hear stories from real alumni learning how to make it in their post-InterVarsity reality, my hope is that this podcast will offer some encouragement, a few laughs and even some hope for the future. This is After IV, and these are your stories.

Welcome

Hello, and welcome to After IV: the podcast for InterVarsity alumni. I'm your host, Jon Steele. And can I say there are a lot of podcasts out there like literally 3 million the last time I checked. I'm really glad that you choose to listen to this one alumni. I love getting to be a part of this growing community together. Super fun. Thanks for joining us. Hey, today we're wrapping up our finding your footing series. And I'm excited for the way that we're choosing to end it rather than another conversation with an expert or an alumni story. We're doing things a little differently. Today, I'm going to be sitting down with my friend Halley and alumna from Minnesota State right here in Mankato, Minnesota. And we're going to be digging into a piece of Scripture together and talking about what we can learn from it about God in the midst of transition, and we threw all time constraints out the window. So you're getting a long episode today to wrap up the series. If you'd like to follow along with us, we'll be in Psalm 18 verses one through 36. You can even pause the episode print off a copy and do a little manuscript thing of your own. There's a link to the same manuscript Halley and I used in the show notes. If you do that, shoot us a DM on Instagram or Facebook @afterivpod and let us know what you found. Let's dig into it together. Now just a couple qualifications. Before we jump in. First, you're going to hear me say manuscript light in my conversation with Halley. That's me being generous. I mean, we took time to mark up the text and write down some questions beforehand, but we definitely didn't follow a strict manuscript format. It's a discussion. So don't dock us points for not following the format. We already know we didn't do that. Second, this is just a couple of friends having an unscripted conversation about the text. I'm sure there are things that you'll hear that will make you say, I'm not so sure you got that one, right. That's totally fine. I'm open to being wrong. The purpose here was just to say, Where will this text lead us in the way that we see God in the midst of transition? Not let's have a publishable exegesis of the first 36 verses of Psalm 18. Just so we're all on the same page about where this is going. So if you'd like to do some manuscripts of your own ahead of time, pause now and spend some time there. Otherwise, enjoy this extended conversation with Halley. This one's for you, alumni. 

Musical Interlude

Interview

Jon Steele
Halley, welcome to the podcast.

Halley Weinberger  2:49  
Thank you. It's so fun to be here.

Jon Steele  2:52  
Yes, I'm really excited. And not only are you on the podcast, but we actually get to sit across the table from each other while we do this.

Halley Weinberger  2:58  
It feels so personal. Fun.

Jon Steele  3:02  
I know I do so many of these over zoom that it's just nice. The times they get to do it just like this. Super fun. Well, Halley, we're going to do something that we've never done before on the podcast, to focus in completely on a piece of scripture and do almost like a manuscript lite sort of session. So I'm excited to get to do this together. Before we do that, though, would you just let us know who you are Halley.

Halley Weinberger  3:26  
Yeah, so my name is Halley Weinberger. I am a senior at Minnesota State University Mankato. I am double majoring or I guess I was double majoring in communication studies and psychology. So all the people he thinks all the interpersonal things, and I guess some fun facts about me, I love ice cream. I will never turn it down. And I love sunsets. If you asked me at anytime a day. I guess that's not super relevant, because it could be 8am. And the sun isn't setting. But if you asked me anytime a day, I would love to go watch the sunset.

Jon Steele  3:57  
That's awesome. Well, so Halley, you're, like done with classes. By the time people listen to this, you will have graduated. Yeah. So tell us what's happening after you graduate.

Halley Weinberger  4:08  
Yeah, so super exciting things I was accepted into graduate school. So I'll come back to MSU in the fall and start a graduate program in industrial organizational psychology. For anybody who doesn't know what that is. It's basically just applying psychology in the workplace. So I'm really excited for the opportunity to learn more about that.

Jon Steele  4:28  
So then, Halley, as you're thinking about moving into the summer, and then into this grad program, I'm excited for us to talk through this text today. For everybody that's listening. We're gonna look at a few verses from Psalm 18. And I think there's some really cool imagery of God and his interaction with his people when they're when they find themselves in kind of freaky situations. So I'm excited to just to see what happens in our conversation around this text and especially as you process it, in light of moving into graduation and life after graduation, shall we jump into Psalm a 18 here 

Halley Weinberger
Let's do it. 

Jon Steele
Okay, sweet! I'm going to read just the first chunk here and then we will spend some time discussing Alright, this is Psalm 18:1-6a or so. 

I love you, Lord, my strength. The Lord is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer. My God is my rock in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. I called to the Lord who is worthy of praise and I have been saved from my enemies, the cords of death and tangled me the torrents of destruction overwhelmed me, the cords of the grave coiled around me, the snares of death confronted me, in my distress, I call to the Lord, I cried to my God for help. 

So Halley, as you've already spent some time with this, what are some things that stood out to you as you were observing your way through this part of the text?

Halley Weinberger  5:49  
Yeah, well, I think right away it just starts out like I love you, Lord, my strength before there's me like, help me before there's any who am I? It's, I love you, Lord, my strength. Yeah. And then just of reestablishing even sometimes I think we do that with ourselves. Like, okay, The Lord is my rock. The Lord is my fortress and my deliver. I believe this. So I just like I picture him writing this and going through like, okay, reminding myself of this before I step in to this hard thing that's happening.

Jon Steele  6:16  
Yeah, I thought that was really interesting, too, because you've got like, there's clearly fear, danger, distress, anxiety that's happening right here. That is a reality. But yes, that's not where it starts that okay, I'm going to start here. I love you, Lord, this is true. This will always be true. Yes. Like, these are the things that I can that I can understand about you. And that sort of paints the way that I see what's happening around me. 

Halley Weinberger  6:40  
Yeah, I also just really love verse three, where it goes, like I called to the Lord who is worthy of praise and I have been saved. So right away again, that reminder of like, okay, this has already happened. Yeah, like, this is something that I've walked through, and I've seen God deliver me until, like, immediately when I read this, I just think of like, oh, wow, like the Lord has been faithful to me. So like coming out of this season of college, even within the first six verses, I'm like, wow, God has been so faithful to me in this chapter of my life on campus, he'll continue to do that. So it's again, just like prepping your mindset of like, Okay, God, like who have you been? Who are you? Who do I say that you are? Before I like acknowledge this hardship?

Jon Steele  7:17  
Yes. And what an important mindset for us to take with us into each phase of life, each experience that we have. But there is very clearly something very scary that's happening for David. Yeah. The cords of death, the torrents of destruction, the cords of the grave, the snares of death. I mean, this repetition to make sure that like you understand this is something serious that's happening here. Yes. And communicating that in the midst of believing these things. There's something very difficult going on for David here.

Halley Weinberger  7:47  
I agree. And it's really vivid language to like, destruction overwhelmed me, death confronted me very clearly. David is distressed, which again, when I look back at even undergrad, I can say yeah, okay, then there have been stressed and overwhelmed. Yes.

Jon Steele  8:01  
Okay. So first of all, I don't want to over dramatize transition to life after graduation, like people will be across the spectrum on here, but I don't want to just put it up there as like when you graduate. It's like the cords of death are entangling you. That's not what it has to be like. That's not what I'm saying. But I do think that that transition is one that brings up fear, anxiety, the unknown. Yes. And so I wonder for you, as you think about life after graduation, what are some of the things that make you feel fearful?

Halley Weinberger  8:31  
Yeah, well, I think number one, like the unknown, the unknown is just scary. In general, you never know what you're jumping into what you're really getting yourself into. When I think about specifically in my situation, I think of entering grad school, and after coming from a year of rest, and a little bit more of a letter Courseload I just think, oh, man, am I ready for this? Like, okay, like, I know, I can do it, but I just, I'm gonna get slapped in the face that is very scary. Also, with this element of who will my friends be? What were my relationships look like? Will I get along with my professors? Just the whole, the newness of it is very daunting, I think.

Jon Steele  9:10  
Absolutely. I think that fear of the unknown, whatever your next phase of graduation is going to be not everybody's going to grad school, many people will be, but that fear of the unknown, I think is something we can all identify with. Who will my friends be? Where will I find them? am I actually going to be good at this thing that I step into next? Or am I going to realize like, Oh, I've spent all this time studying for something that I either suck at, or I actually don't like this.

Halley Weinberger  9:37  
Seriously, that's a real fear, too.

Jon Steele  9:39  
So then before we go any further with the things that we're feeling and wondering about? Let's see what the text says next. Yeah. Halley, will you read our next chunk here?

Halley Weinberger  9:48  
Absolutely. 

From his temple, he heard my voice. My cry came before him into his ears. The earth trembled and quaked and the foundations of the mountains shook. They trembled because He was angry. smoke rose from his nostrils consuming fire came from his mouth burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down. Dark clouds were under his feet. He mounted the cherry bomb and flew his sword on the wings of the wind. He made darkness His covering his canopy around him. The dark rain clouds of the sky out of the brightness of His presence, clouds advanced with hailstones and bolts of lightning, the Lord thundered from heaven, the voice of the Most High resounded, he shot his arrows and scattered the enemy with great bolts of lightning, he routed them, the valleys of the sea were exposed on the foundations of the earth laid bare at your rebuke Lord, at the blast of breath from your nostrils. He reached down from on high and took hold of me, he drew me out of deep waters, he rescued me from my powerful enemy from my foes who were too strong for me. They confronted me in the day of my disaster, but the Lord was my support. He brought me into a spacious place he rescued me because he delighted in me.

Jon Steele  11:01  
Okay, so let's, let's divide even the section into kind of two parts here. Let's start with this pretty vivid imagery of God. Like what stands out to you as you think about the picture that's painted of got here?

Halley Weinberger  11:13  
Oh, man, I mean, I picture like almost like some Avengers type stuff or something just like crazy mountains of on comprehensible things like the Earth is trembling. The foundations of the mountains shook. I don't know. It's like scary almost like if if that person was coming after me, I would run 

Jon Steele  11:31  
Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, even just verse eight here, smoke rose from his nostrils consuming fire came from his mouth burning coals blazed out of this face of fire. It's just like almost this dragon. Like he's about to spit fire in rage in anger, which is super interesting that this cry for help engages this guy who responds very quickly, but with Wow, some really intense imagery.

Halley Weinberger  11:56  
Yeah, I see right away also out of the brightness of His presence in verse 12. Clouds as vanced. And so like it wasn't out of this, like dark place out of the brightness of His presence, hailstones and bolts of lightning and clouds. The Lord is thundering, but it's like, in a positive way. Yeah, I feel like I need to read that. Because otherwise I'm like, oh, Lord, what's he gonna do? 

Jon Steele  12:16  
Yeah, yeah, that is really interesting. This comparison. Let's see here in 11 made darkness is covering his canopy around him the dark clouds of the sky. But like you said, the brightness of His presence like yes, this forward. That's such an interesting compare and contrast there of like this darkness versus light and the way that they're working together in the spot.

Halley Weinberger  12:34  
Even like the dark clouds under his feet. I don't know, again, when I read this the first time I was like, hmm, I don't know. Like, this picture I've got in my head does not aligned when I'm reading.

Jon Steele  12:44  
It's so fascinating to me towards the end of verse 15, talking about the blast of his breath from his nostrils that the valleys of the sea are exposed, the foundations of the earth are laid bare, when thinking about like the imagery of breath from earlier in the Old Testament, God puts his breath into Adam and Eve like brings life to them. And I think it talks about the blast of breath from his nostrils being what like divides the Red Sea for Israel to walk through. And so this really interesting imagery of of breath compared to other ways that it's been brought up in the past.

Halley Weinberger  13:17  
That's funny that lately all the Scripture I've been going through is had this idea of breath, and it's so crazy, like, that's like one of the fears that is deep rooted in me, I have this innate fear, where I'm like, I'm not gonna be able to breathe, which is just so crazy to go through Scripture and like, God's so vividly is like, I put this breath in your lungs. I don't know, that just gives so much power to it breath in general. It's crazy. Because it's… that's life.

Jon Steele  13:36  
Yes. And that here you have, you have this breath. That's like stepping into a place of rescuing. Yes, this breath that started your life is also the breath that is continuing and preserving your life.

Halley Weinberger  13:48  
Yeah, I feel like I get this picture of like, I don't know, David being trampled by his enemies, kind of like the cords of death entangling him literally being like, choked and then to have this image of okay, God breathes and like it's just lifted or like he has this new sense of lightness. Yeah, freedom, knowing that God is on the way.

Jon Steele  14:06  
Okay, so that you've got this huge, dare I say really scary God. That is responding as a result of the call that happens in the middle of verse six. But then there's a significant shift

Halley Weinberger  14:18  
It’s verse 12 when it shifts for me; calling on the brightness of who God is. Because before that, it does seem very scary for me. But yeah, I feel like the whole thing is building building building where it's like this giant is awoken from his like slumber Yes. What is going on? Like, did you disrupt my child? Absolutely do something to my creation.

Jon Steele  14:38  
Yeah, I love then in verse 16, it's almost like it zooms in it slows down. It's just almost like this hand gently lifting you have this gentle giant gone from a raging giant to this gentle giant that then scoops his child up. That is just crazy to me.

Halley Weinberger  14:57  
I feel like there's this theme within Psalms this drawing us out of trouble picking us up, just kind of implying that it's not. It's not our action that saves us either. It's God who reaches down comes down, saves us, touches us picks us up. And that is for sure for me when I read that, and I just feel like this warmth of like, Oh, I'm drowning. Another one of my fears. And at this is this imagery of like, he's picking me up when the waves are crashing over my head rescuing me. 

Jon Steele  15:27  
What I love is this last part of verse 19, he brought me out into a spacious place. He rescued me because why did he rescue because I called on him because everything was dangerous, because he was really opposed to my enemy. No, he rescued me because he delighted in me, holy cow. I mean, what does that do? You see this raging giant of a God who steps in and rescues you? Because he delights in you.

Halley Weinberger  15:54  
It's funny, I actually highlighted the same thing. And I Googled it. I was just like, what does that really mean? And it said, this overall enjoyment and like, extreme pleasure in being around or being with that item, or thing or person. If we look at ourselves as that object. Wow, God has an extreme pleasure in like sitting with us and seeing us and being near us, listening to us. Like,

Jon Steele  16:19  
that's insane. I have to be honest, that's an idea of God that I don't let be true in my life. Enough. Big scary raging God, I can totally identify with that. But usually, I'm like thinking about that coming against me. But to think like, no, that's the guy who's coming to my rescue. Because he delights in me because he takes pleasure just spending time together. You actually like this? You're not doing it because you feel obligated? Or it was like, No, you legitimately love this.

Halley Weinberger  16:47  
Yes. Oh, I just got this throwback. I guess in my head from this previous semester of Bible study. I was leading a Bible study for a bunch of first year, girls, second year, girls, and we just went through truths of the week truth about God and truth about what he says about us as a result of who he is. And one of the truths was just like, I delight and you I don't need you to do more to be enough. I don't need you to like toil, I just need you to sit like I'm coming after you. And there was one study where we did the classic like Jesus goes after the one with the 99 sheep. And we do lots of analogies. And so we named our last sheep Joe, Joe, he was like outside of a pen gone. And Jesus runs after Joe like Jesus is running after Joe not because Joe was like the best sheep. Right? Not because Joe was perfect. Like Joe was just a one of his own. And he just wanted him to be mere and like, delighted and knowing that all of his sheep were near. And so I don't know, I just got that imagery, what you're saying. That's so good. 

Jon Steele  17:42  
That's amazing. Okay. So then Halley, as you think about going into this life, after graduation, after this graduation, there'll be another one for you. How does it make you feel to know that a God who responds like this to the unknown, the scary whatever it might be, is going into life after graduation with you.

Halley Weinberger  18:02  
There's just this softness, and there's this feeling of really just being held, even the summer season, I just have this feeling of confidence and like I'm walking in the way of the Lord, I'm not walking in this path that I've chosen for myself. I'm walking, where he's already paved it, I'm walking with someone who will awake at any moment to come to my defense, there's nowhere that I can go to wander outside his hand. It's really this feeling of like protection, peace. And that doesn't mean that there aren't the cords of death, or the cords of death are there as he's reading this. He's like, Yeah, no, I went through all of this. Put this as who you are at it. So there's never ever this point of like, oh, like, maybe God will not allow me to go through any of this pain? No, he's so confident that like he is going to be the cause of death again. Otherwise, I really don't think he would be shouting this song to the Lord.

Jon Steele  18:49  
And it doesn't even necessarily mean like to pull him right out. It might just be I'm gonna hold you in my hand while we walk through this crazy time. And those cords of death are gonna like keep reaching over my palm to try to get to you. But you know what? I'm going to keep you safe right in there. They will not get you.

Halley Weinberger  19:07  
I don't know. I think for me, it's been really helpful to think about how did I even get here because I did not planned to be here. This was my 13th choice of a school obviously, like literally 13th. Like literally I toured 13 schools as a high school senior. And so as a final plea, I guess I toured Mankato, and I walked around and I was like, dang, unfortunately, I feel like this is where I need to be. I really didn't want to come here. And yet to see like what God has done like before I even stepped foot on campus, literally before I even walked here. He already prepared the way my roommate I had two days left to find a roommate he gave me someone who I have now lived with for three years, my jobs, my classes, my professors, everything has happened in the exact time that it needed to happen. And I've grown in ways that I would have never grown if I went to the school that I wanted to go to God was so faithful to me and that and yet I was like resisting it with everything I had. And all God wanted was just to say like, Okay, how you're still in my hand, I just want you to walk here. And so for me thinking about like, what did God do in the last season when I had to transition one time? How did he provide? Okay, now, how will he continue to do that in the future? So even if you like, your college experience, it wasn't what you planned? Or maybe you're like, wow, God's faithfulness was not evident to me in this season. Right? That's okay. I'm sure you've had another transition from middle school to high school, a move a family, a relationship, anything like that. Certainly, if you think back, you can find one example about how God has been faithful to you. 100%.

Jon Steele  20:40  
Yes. And what's funny is I listened to you talk, because we've talked about these things before some of the questions that you were wrestling with that first time are the exact same questions that you're wrestling with as you go into this new program. And it's like, all right, Haley, do you believe what you just said is true, that God took care of all of those things for you the first time, and he will take care of them again, this time, and the next time and the time after that. And the time after that. It's just cool to see that, like, God's been prepping you and showing Himself faithful. And now it's like, alright, take two or take five wherever you are at this point. And that he Yeah, he's inviting you into Alright, let's do this again. Watch what I do.

Halley Weinberger  21:21  
You know, what's crazy is like, what I imagined it looking like even based off ways that he's provided in the past, it's gonna look different. It's gonna look different than what I expect. And so just like already trying to use the summer or like this neutral zone, as you talked about, yes. As just this preparation time of like, okay, how can I already be praying like, Lord, prepare my heart to be faithful? Prepare me to have trust in you. Because when I get in the moment, I'm gonna want to run the other way. I'm gonna want to doubt you, I probably will. Just cry. Why God, where are you? Yeah, so I don't know. I think transitions are just good.

Jon Steele  21:57  
They are. As brutal as they can be sometimes, They are good. They are good for us. Well, let's jump into this next section picking up in verse 20. 

The Lord has dealt with me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands, he has rewarded me, for I have kept the ways of the Lord, I am not guilty of turning from my God. All his laws are before me. I have not turned away from his decrees. I've been blameless before him and I've kept myself from sin. The Lord has rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight to the faithful you show yourself faithful to the blameless you show yourself blameless to the poor, you show yourself pure, but to the devious, you show yourself shrewd. You save the humble but bring low those whose eyes are haughty, you, Lord, keep my lamp burning. My God turns my darkness into light. With your help I can advance against a troop with my god, I can scale a wall. 

Yep, just some bold statements, David.

Halley Weinberger  22:56  
David! As I was reading this, I was like, David, no, I don't feel this way.

Jon Steele  23:01  
What do I do with this? Yeah, I think before we jump into this, like a little bit of context, we have the benefit of a little more understanding of David's life than he probably did at this point. We know that David makes some really big mistakes as he progresses. So he is not literally perfect, but it does make me wonder what are the things that he understands about himself? And he understands about God that would allow him to speak like this. So what are some of the things that stand out to you, as you think about that chunk of text?

Halley Weinberger  23:28  
I mean, right away, I just think of verse 21. That's what gets me right away, for I have kept the ways of the Lord, I am not guilty of turning for my God. And right away, I'm like, oh, no, I'm so guilty of turning from my God, like in every scenario, and every chance I will run and turn and choose the shiny object. Yeah, so that right away is just like, oh, convicting. Yeah, and the whole thing kind of echoes that same theme of like, no, no, like, I think Good lord, keeping up with us stay on the same page. But when I think of David, in this context, probably like, a lot of the hardship he had to deal with was probably like loneliness, and like being persecuted. And he's probably thinking in this mindset of Lord, it would be easy for me to run, but you've asked me to stay, I'm gonna stay. I think he's probably thinking in the context of his hardship. I don't think we stand before God. And we're like, we're perfect. But I think in the sense of the people who might have been comparing himself to like, Okay, Lord, You have saved me, because I am like, following you and seeking you at all these things.

Jon Steele  24:23  
Yeah, I agree. So a little bit of context that we didn't talk about just that David is writing this in response to it says, right at the beginning, when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all His enemies and from the hand of Saul. And so yeah, I think that you're right, that like, you have those two moments where David could have killed Saul, where, you know, he sneaks up in the middle of the night, like, through his entire army somehow makes it to Saul, and he's like, No, I'm not gonna do it. I'm just gonna take your water jar and your spear. I think those are the things that he takes. And then the other time that Saul comes into the cave to go to the bathroom, and David sneaks up and takes a corner of his robe and even that he's like, overwhelmed with guilt. Have like I raised my hand against the Lord's anointed, but that he had all of these moments where he could have killed Saul. And he's like, Nope, I'm not going to play by those rules. God has promised that for me in my line is where the stuff is going to happen. So I'm gonna wait and I'm gonna, I'm gonna wait for God's timing and that in those things in those moments, the context that he's talking about, that he was righteous, He chose the correct path in those moments.

Halley Weinberger  25:23  
Well, there's just a lot there. And I think too, with like, even verse 25, to the faithful, you show yourself faithful to the blameless you show yourself blameless, again, within that context of like, Okay, Lord, I've been faithful, I'm waiting, I'm in this bush, I'm in the cave, you will show yourself a fool. And you have shown yourself faithful.

Jon Steele  25:42  
It does make me think about the times that we decide like, Okay, I've spent a lot of time studying about God, you know, studying his Word, but there's a lot of alternate alternative perspectives out there. And it's helpful for me to like, understand those perspectives. And I think that there's truth to that. But how often do we say like, well, once I stopped going to church, I just, I felt like I didn't really need it anymore. Once I stopped studying God's word, I was just like, You know what, I'm getting along just fine in my life without understanding scripture, it makes me feel that God sort of presents himself in the place of like, okay, well, I mean, the route that you want to go is going to color your perspective of me, if you are only going to lean into the ways that you know, the world that doesn't understand and is talking about me being this vile, bigoted, unjust God, then yeah, that's how you're going to see me because that's the information you're leaning into. But if you go to Scripture, and the things that I say about myself, and the things that my people say about me, you're going to see a God who loves a God who forgives a God who is gracious a God who desires for everyone to come to a knowledge of Him, who are you going to lean into, because that is the perspective of me that you're going to see.

Halley Weinberger  26:46  
That really just gives me another picture of like, in this season of transition after graduation, even though we've potentially been active in our campus ministries, or we've potentially been living in this way, like we're faced with another choice, will you continue to believe God is faithful? Will you rely on the promises of this world, which leaves you disappointed time and time again? And so I can think in my own life ways, where like, when I'm living in sin, or when I'm doing something that I know, like, Okay, Lord, I know you would prefer that, like, I'm really not doing this. It draws me away from who I see God as and I start to just be more focused on me. And it prevents me from seeing God as who he really is someone who is holding me and someone who is walking with me. And I think that's an easy temptation to fall into when we transition and walk alone for a little while. And face these things. 

Jon Steele  27:41  
Yeah, that event like how many times can we look back and say, okay, but the cords of death keep entangling me over and over and over again, and that we can just focus on that and be like, God, why do you keep letting this happen to me? And that we can just forget, like, okay, but God also keeps rescuing you out of it again, and again. And again. This is the nature of the world that we live in, we will experience hardship, we will experience doubt, we will experience anxiety. But in the midst of all of those things, God is there to scoop us up and walk through it with us. God continues to rescue continues to save he continues to walk along with us. And so which perspective will we look at the cause of death keep entangling me or this amazing? God who delights in me keeps rescuing me? Which one will we lean into?

Halley Weinberger  28:27  
Yeah. And that's why I like even how David ends us. And he comes back through all of this and says, You Lord, keep my lamp burning. I'm guessing there's some times where that that flame was flickering. Like the wind came, the storms came and wanted to go out but you Lord kept it burning. And like even my God turns my darkness into light. You will walk in this darkness like you wish those things is gonna get hard. And then he says, with your help, I can advance against a trip with my god, I can scale a wall. And man what a wall transition is. It is a slap to the face. 

Jon Steele  29:01  
Yes, it absolutely is. So Holly, what does it look like to keep being mindful of the cleanness of our hands and to keep the way of the Lord as we move into this new season of life?

Halley Weinberger  29:12  
Yeah, I mean, from the perspective of a 21 year old student with limited life experience, I really think you got to just look back to his faithfulness. You just have to trust like when your lamp almost burns out, when the wall looks higher than it's ever been like, you have to lean on the Lord and say, like, you can do this for me, I can do this with you. And even in the ways that we talked about which path will you continue to choose? Keeping your hands clean, I think can just look like Okay, Lord, I'm going to be in the word today. I'm going to choose to come back to you and just sit with you and let your presence cleanse me. And I think in times we are going to fail. We're not going to be faithful. Absolutely the Lord like he comes back and like is still holding you.

Jon Steele  29:53  
Well. Let's keep going here. Halley, will you round out this part of chapter 18 that we're looking at now? 

Halley Weinberger  29:59  
Absolutely. 

As for God, his way is perfect. The Lord's word is flawless. He shields all who take refuge in Him for who is God besides the Lord, and who is the rock except our God. It is God who arms me with strength and keeps my way secure. He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, he causes me to stand on the heights. He trains my hands for battle, my arms can bend a bow of bronze, you make your saving help my shield, and your right hand sustains me. Your help has made me great. You provide a broad path for my feet, so that my ankles do not give away. 

Jon Steele
Halley what stands out to you as you read through that?

Halley Weinberger
Ah, right away, verse 30. He shields all who take refuge in him. That implies we're going to be taking refuge like we've talked about, there's a time like when we are going to be in trouble and like he shields that. 

Jon Steele  30:51  
So there will be times of needing to be shielded and to take refuge. But then that he shields all who take refuge. The door is open for you to take refuge here. Even if you said no thanks the last 10 times. If you choose to take refuge here, the door is open for you.

Halley Weinberger  31:08  
Yes, I also love that image in verse 31. For who is God besides the Lord and who is the rock except our God? And I think with that continual mindset of like, the rock doesn't change like a rock is steady in the storms and the waves are rock stays relatively stable, the rock doesn't really move, even if it potentially shifts and looks a little different. The rock is still the rock. And so again, like you said, for all the times we said no or for all the times we walked away for all the times we chose the sand house instead of the rock. The rock is still the rock and we get to come back to that at the end of the day.

Jon Steele  31:37  
Yes. Do you think the imagery of the deer is weird? 

Halley Weinberger  31:41  
No, because I picture deer as like a very quick, light animal. I picture them as like very free. It's like this lightness like he makes my feet like where I walk like I'm hopping through like yeah, I'm moving. I'm not stuck. I'm not grounded. I'm not dragging my feet. I've never seen a deer dragging their feet, right? Like in that way. I'm like, wow, yes, a deer.

Jon Steele  32:00  
So I thought it was a weird image. So I looked it up. I was like, why is he talking about a deer especially in relation to the mountains? Yeah, I realized that I come from a place where I see the deer running through fields. You know, flat level ground, the deer lives in the woods and running through fields and all of that kind of stuff. Apparently, here you had, you know, the way that we might think about a mountain goat. Yeah, like able to traverse these rocky crags and everything and like find little bits of food, you know, you see pictures of these goats just like standing on rocks. And like, how did you get there? Yeah, where do you go from there? Apparently they had deer that did that same thing. They were able to just like cling to the rocks and jump around on these different. So going through this rocky wilderness, you would have seen deer just making their way in these paths that would have seemed impossible, but capable of traversing crazy terrain, which is like a really fascinating image to me.

Halley Weinberger  32:53  
Yeah, that image is way better. I feel like mine is a stretch. I was like “Oh, the deer…” That makes much more sense. And I still think like that, that lightness of like even a lion I think has a bigger, heavier connotation. But like a deer is still just like they're just going up and like doing the hard thing. Just trotting. Total content. Yep, just going about their day smelling the roses.

Jon Steele  33:15  
Exactly. totally capable, which is interesting to me, because then also goes goes on to talk about he trains my hands for battle. It's not just this image of being carried in the palm of God's hand, but that he is training this person to be capable in the midst of hardship, to be able to climb that rock like a deer would like to have firm footing to be able to engage in the battle that is raging around them and not just be this helpless. Like I don't know what to do here. Like we're still gonna have to call on the on the name of the Lord. But that it seems to me this person has the tools or is being trained into having the tools so that they can actually engage with the world around them not do it themselves, but that they can participate in what's happening.

Halley Weinberger  34:03  
Yeah, no, I think in the circumstances that we go through in these transitions, God is continually training us and preparing us and everything we go through like even this past season of undergrad for me of college like that was preparation for what I'm about to walk into, in whether it was preparation directly for grad school, or even a job or relationship building or moving across the country like, in some way some form. God was preparing me and continuing to equip me with the biblical strengths and tools and fruits of the spirit that I need to walk with him.

Jon Steele  34:39  
Yeah, and the in doing those things, it feels like that's what makes it possible for this last verse to actually be realistic. You provide a broad path for my feet so that my ankles do not give way, which is part of what triggered this discussion for me as the series that we're doing is called Finding your footing. And so I came across this passage and I'm like, here's finding your footing The part of this text, there's still more that comes in chapter 18 here, but this felt like a fitting place to stop. But that because he is carrying us in training us to participate, that is broadening the path that we are capable of walking on. It's not just like, I only have this very narrow ledge that I'm able to traverse, it's like, no, because, yes, you have God who will rescue you. So that makes you like, I can do this part sit in his hand, I can do that part. But also he is training you to participate in this like, okay, there's actually even more of this path than that I can walk with God in in doing this work, and that he's giving me the stability that I need in all of these different ways to participate with him to wait on Him and all the above as I make my way through this transition and into this next season of my life.

Halley Weinberger  35:48  
Yeah. And that really just gives an image of an active participation in this next season of life to it's not going to passively like receive what happens to me and hope God that, like he will pull me out of it, which you will but like more than that, like you get to have an active you get to walk without your ankle snapping. Like that's pretty awesome. It's great. Yeah. And actually, when I read this right away, I read it. And I was like, Oh, that is just such a beautiful picture. Because right away, I picture like a narrow road of like, this goal that God has for me that I have to hit, coming back to like decision making things coming into this transition of like, did I make the right decision? Did I choose the narrow road like that God has this tiny little goal that I target that I have to hit? And this just emphasizes like no, like, there was never narrow road, there was never a Oh, no, like you screwed up. God can't use this, like, God didn't want you there. Like, instead of this balance beam where I'm trying not to stumble and fall, like I get to sidestep, I get to walk and explore and grow and transition with mistakes, and with grace and with confidence in all of the things that he gives us. Because it's a broad path. It's not a cliff edge. He's not challenging us to like, you better try your best. You're like you're on the edge like it's this or it's over, like no, what grace and what a beautiful thing that he opens up this space, especially in transition for us to walk through freely, and just walk with confidence and walk with the hope that this is a path that God has set me on. And this is a space that he's paved the way. 

Jon Steele  37:21  
Yes, I think that's amazing. And I just just to qualify here, this is not to confuse the narrow road of salvation through Christ alone, there is a narrow path that we must follow to be reconciled to our God, like, let's use that, but on the broad path of what it looks like to to partner with God in our lives, that it's not just this tiny target that you've got to hit. And anything outside of that is not being on the path for the way that he wants your life to go. That God has actually like opened up so much to us and say like, there's so many opportunities for you say yes. And just walk with me in your yes, the calling of your life, the purpose of your life does not have to feel like this impossibly small target to hit. There's so many ways to to follow Jesus with integrity and to partner with God in the ways that he wants to do life with you.

Halley Weinberger  38:13  
And I feel like that's just really an encouraging word for anyone in any stage of life. But especially in transition of did I choose the right career? Did I take the right job? I could have gone here, I could have done this, but I chose this Why Why am I here? Things are hard. Did I do the wrong thing? And I think that's just reassurance of like, no, no, no, no, no, no. God is still carrying us still in this broad path again, in the ways of the Lord. Yes, we qualified. I know, for me, that was huge coming into college because I had felt like, Okay, this is make or break, Lord, like if this doesn't go well, like I have failed, I have wandered off, we are no longer in relationship. It is over for me. And I just think it's so important for people to realize that's not how God views it. And that's not how he ever intended us to view it. I don't know how we got so confused in the world of like, this is the exact thing I have to do. Or it's over. I've messed up. I can't return I can't recover. But yeah, the image of the broad path, walking with confidence, all the things this whole passage leads up to that. Yeah, you get to walk on the broad path with the Lord as your rock is your fortress, your deliverer. He's drawing you out every time. I just love it. 

Jon Steele  39:18  
Yes, and places you back on the broad path. Let me jump to the last question that I want to ask you based on what we're seeing here in Psalm 18. And as someone who's about to graduate yourself, what's a word of advice or application that you'd give to your fellow alumni as they enter into life after graduation?

Halley Weinberger  39:36  
It's like, follow the format of the song. Maybe you're already in distress. Maybe you're already freaking out about this next step. First and foremost, first one, I love you, Lord, my strength. Go back to God, just telling you love him. Give him your praise. Give him your admiration before he does anything or before you see the miracle like I love you, Lord, my strength that is first and foremost. And I think also as it touches on like that There's gonna be hardship. Transition is never easy. It's filled with opportunities for growth, because it's hard. And that's the beautiful part about it in the hardship, we get to know that we have a God who is running towards us climbing after our enemies. Maybe it's a stressful work situation, maybe it's roommates, maybe it's the new state you live in, like, God is defending you against all things trying to harm you. And when you do find yourself at your weakest, he's already drawing you out of the water, you're already in his hand, even if you don't feel like it. And as it keeps going, continue to walk in his face, continue to read your Bible, maybe you start reading your Bible, maybe you're like, Okay, this is the real thing, I'm gonna get to read scripture, and you just sit with that and like, remember who God is. But ultimately, just in the transition, I think it's important to remember like, God has been faithful to you before God has carried you this far. This is what you've already done, God, this is why I get to con you. This is why I can say I can scale any wall with your help, come back to that come back to what he's done previously. And whether that's in your own life or in the Bible. Like we can see that he's done that for Moses, he's done that for the Israelites, he's done that for Abraham, every single person has been faithful. So I think just standing on that solid rock, that foundation of this is who God is, this is who he continues to be. And this is who he will be in this season of life can really serve as a stronghold and just a strong place for footing. So we get to be the deer running up the mountain.

Jon Steele  41:27  
That's awesome for me to add anything to that would be to detract from it. So that's a fantastic final word. Halley, thanks so much for being willing to pick apart this text and talk about it together. This has been super fun.

Halley Weinberger  41:39  
Thank you so much for having me, Jon, this has been an absolute blast. I hope for everyone listening that this was something that God placed on your heart to listen to, and that you heard anything, something maybe you're not even related to transition, I hope that you can feel confident in what God is speaking to you. But thanks, Jon.

Musical Interlude

Wrap up

Jon Steele  42:02  
“God is defending you against all things trying to harm you. And when you do find yourself at your weakest, he's already drawing you out of the water. You're already in his hand, even if you don't feel like it.” If you hear nothing else, alumni hear those words from Halley, whatever your context, recent grad or not InterVarsity alum or not know that the insanely powerful God that David is talking about here is the same God who goes with you into the season of life, he hears you when you call and he responds, He scoops you up in His mighty hand and he does it because he delights in you. You are highly favored by God, and He is training you to accomplish his purposes in the places that he's put you remind yourself of his past faithfulness and watch for the ways that he continues to be faithful today. Holly, thanks so much for joining us for this conversation, for sharing your wisdom and for helping us round out this series with a bang. To all of you alumni listeners out there. I hope this was encouraging for you. If you made some of your own observations along the way had other insights and applications to your context. Or if you just really liked this format and want to hear it more often on the podcast, please let us know. Hit us up on Instagram or Facebook @afterivpod and tell us what you're thinking. I also hope that this finding your footing series has been a blessing. We'd love to hear your thoughts on how you're applying the topics that we've covered. Quick reminder, we're taking a break for the next few weeks, but we still have some bonus episodes coming your way in the meantime. So enjoy some previously unheard moments from recent guests over the next three weeks. Then we'll be back on July 17. With a brand new episode we're going to be returning to harvest story you might remember that harvest is an alumna who spent a number of years as a missionary in China. We first met her back in January and we're going to hear more about her experiences doing ministry in secret in China and what it was like to shift gears during the pandemic to keep reaching people with the gospel. Really amazing stories coming to you on July 17. I'm excited to be back together at that point. Thanks for tuning in. I'll see you in the after, alumni.

Podcast Outro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Alumni. If there was anything that you learned, really enjoyed, or that encouraged you from today's episode, would you send us a DM or tag us in a story? We'd love to hear about it. You can find us @afterivpod on Instagram and Facebook. And if you haven't already, take just a second to unlock your phone and subscribe to the podcast. If your platform lets you, leave us a rating and a review. And if you like what we're doing here, share us with your InterVarsity or other post-graduation friends. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you in the after, Alumni.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai