After IV
Finding Your Footing with Evangelism
 
Podcast Intro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Jon Steele  0:09  
Hey everyone. I'm Jon Steele. And this is After IV: a podcast for InterVarsity alumni. Life after college is hard. And even a great experience with your University chapter doesn't shield you from the challenges of transition. As we hear stories from real alumni learning how to make it in their post-InterVarsity reality, my hope is that this podcast will offer some encouragement, a few laughs and even some hope for the future. This is After IV, and these are your stories.

Welcome

Hello, hello. Welcome to after IV, the podcast for InterVarsity alumni. I'm your host, Jon Steele. Thanks for joining me for another episode. If it's your first time, welcome to the podcast. And congrats once again, to all you brand new 2023 alumni out there. Welcome to life after graduation, we are so excited to get to walk through this new season with you. In fact, we're in the middle of a series that is specifically for you brand new grads, it's called Finding your footing and we're talking about skills and frameworks that are going to be relevant for you immediately after graduation. On this episode, we're talking about evangelism. I think most of us experienced some form of evangelism with our chapter. Maybe you hosted proxies together, maybe you were in a five thresholds cohort, maybe you hosted a gig. Either way, most of us had some sort of structure and context for evangelism with our chapter. But what do you do now? You can't exactly set up a tent with proxy panels in the hall outside of your break room at work. So how in the world do we share the gospel after graduation, especially without the chapter rhythms and tools that we're used to having at our disposal? Well, that's exactly what we're going to figure out on this episode. I'm joined by Jamie ladipo InterVarsity alumna and current member of InterVarsity evangelism department, and she's going to help us find our footing around sharing the gospel in our new post graduation context. And I think you'll find that her recommendations are going to make evangelism feel way more tangible and familiar than you might have anticipated. So let's meet Jamie, this one's for you, alumni. 

Musical Interlude

Interview

Jon Steele
Jamie, welcome to the podcast.

Jamie Ladipo  2:14  
Thank you. Glad to be here.

Jon Steele  2:16  
Yes. I'm really glad that we get to have this conversation together. Today we're going to talk about what does it look like to continue growing in evangelism and sharing Jesus with the people around us after we graduate? It's a question that I often have as well. But before we dive into that, Jamie, can you just help us get to know you a little bit?

Jamie Ladipo  2:36  
Yeah, well, I'm, I've been with InterVarsity for about 15 years now. I've played a lot of different roles. So I started as a chapter planter, spent some time as an area director, and for the last five years, I've been working in the evangelism department. I live with my family in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We've been here the last three years.

Jon Steele  2:57  
Wow. Okay, so we could have had this conversation in person. I'm in Mankato, Minnesota. Oh, yeah. Realize that. That's hilarious. Okay.

Jamie Ladipo  3:05  
Yeah, so we actually moved here during the pandemic, I would not recommend moving in a pandemic. But yeah, that's what it was. Let's see, I have a young son who's four years old, one of the my favorite things to do is to go on adventures with him. He turns our neighborhood into a walk in Jurassic Park, or looking at all the dinosaurs or running away from the monsters. You know, it's a new thing every day.

Jon Steele  3:29  
Yes. That's awesome. Oh, yeah, we have a four, almost five year old and it's very much the same. You go outside and you have entered a whole nother world. Exactly. Well, that's fantastic. Jamie, tell me, how did you being an alumni podcast, we'd like to hear people's stories of how they came to be with InterVarsity. Would you tell us just a little bit about your story with InterVarsity. And maybe a standout moment, a standout memory from that time for you?

Jamie Ladipo  3:57  
Yes. So I became a part of InterVarsity somewhat reluctantly. I chose my college because I had no affiliations with Christianity. I wanted nothing to do with religion, Jesus, the whole bit. I didn't grow up religious, and I just didn't want that put onto me. But I live next door to an InterVarsity leader. And she was just so warm and kind and the first week I was there, she was dropped by my room and asked if I wanted to go to dinner, things like that. So when she asked me to come to Bible study, I thought, I'll just go once. I don't want to be rude. She's been really nice. And then I'll just conveniently never be home ever again.

Jon Steele  4:41  
Perfect plan.

Jamie Ladipo  4:42  
Exactly. So went to Bible study, and I was really expecting just people to be really stuffy and boring. And I didn't even like I had no idea what I was in for. But I came into this conversation and people were so Jen When, and the picture of Jesus just leapt off the page at me. And fast forward a couple hours later, I was giving my life to Jesus what I know it was, I had no idea. That's what I was walking into. They had no idea. That's what was going to happen that night. And yet, that's the thing that stands out in my memory. It was, I guess I have to go back, I have to figure out what this means now.

Jon Steele  5:26  
Wow, that I mean, you know, you hear stories of people that like that and intend to get involved with InterVarsity. But somebody kept inviting me and inviting me inviting me. And finally I came along, and you know, life transformation happened along the way. But so this was the first invitation to Bible study. 

Jamie Ladipo  5:41  
Yes. Full transformation and a 90 minute Bible study. 

Jon Steele  5:46  
Oh my gosh, that is fantastic. I'm so glad then that you're the one we're talking to you about this conversation, because it would seem that you've had some very close experiences with somebody taking risks of making an invitation and seeing the fruit that can come from that, yes. And then even just to get your perspective on, you know, your journey of sharing the gospel with others coming out of a story like that. And you know, maybe even some of the expectations and then clashes with reality that weren't exactly like your story. Let's talk about that. You get connected with InterVarsity. Give your life to Jesus right off the bat, as you go into this first Bible study experience, and then keep growing as a follower of Jesus in this community. This is a big fast forward here. But as you start moving towards graduation, and next phases of life for you zooming in on sharing the gospel and evangelism, like what were your expectations, as you were thinking about life after graduation, and then what actually happened?

Jamie Ladipo  6:43  
You know, I had a picture of evangelism of Christian community that was almost entirely shaped by InterVarsity. I've been a part of churches, but InterVarsity was the place where I grew. And so I just sort of expected I would pick up moved to Kansas City from my small town in Iowa, and I would find the church, I would find my neighborhood and my neighborhood would be like my dorm floor. And I didn't expect things to be like a carbon copy and exactly the same. But I didn't have any idea of what to expect the differences to be. So I'm like, I guess I'm just going to do what I know until it doesn't work. And it didn't work on the first day. Yeah, I, you know, what I found was relationships are different outside of college, there's an intensity that happens in college that allows you to go deep, fast. And because your peers and you're going through, really everything is very similar. You just have this basis for going deep that you just don't have in a random neighborhood where people are in different parts of their lives with different backgrounds, different expectations. And church was miles away from my neighborhood, it felt much more disconnected. InterVarsity was literally on my floor. And so there's just some unmet expectations in terms of there would be an easy way for me to live out my faith in this post college life.

Jon Steele  8:11  
As you continued on in that time, were there some things that you notice that started to change, things started to shift, and you started to kind of find your footing in this new area?

Jamie Ladipo  8:22  
Yeah, I think one of the first lessons I learned was the similarity is evangelism is about love. It's always been about love, love for Jesus, and the overflow that comes from worshiping Jesus. And it's about love for others that stayed the same, even though how I applied that was a little bit different.

Jon Steele  8:43  
That makes a lot of sense. Through all of these transitions and changes, Jesus stays the same even as we are developing and experiencing a new world. So yeah, it makes sense that that okay, that's still my launch point, then for what does it look like for me to contextualize sharing the gospel in this new space after I graduate, it's still love for Jesus and love for others.

Jamie Ladipo  9:03  
And I've found one place where I could be intentional. When I was a new graduate, it was a young professionals group I got to be a part of are there other women in their 20s. And then as I got older, it was moms groups or the parents of my son's friends or maybe someone in my neighborhood and instead of feeling like it's all encompassing, I'm gonna reach the whole campus, it became worse my one spot to be intentional and bring Jesus and of course, be open up Jesus, like, bring something along, but where's my one spot?

Jon Steele  9:35  
That's great. That feels like it in a helpful way shrinks the world around us a little bit to say like, Okay, here's my context. You know, with InterVarsity we're talking about every corner of every campus, the community that we're pursuing that together but where's my corner? Where's my corner of campus that I'm connecting with people and sharing Jesus with them and that feels like okay, I can transition that idea to this new part of life. So then being a part of Have this evangelism team with InterVarsity. You all are thinking about sharing the gospel and being effective and winsome all the time. What are some things that you're learning about inviting people to say yes to Jesus in this new phase of life? Are there things that you're learning? Are there things we can contextualize? Do you have some sort of practical ideas or a framework that we can consider as we think about how do I think about sharing the gospel after I graduate?

Jamie Ladipo  10:27  
Yeah, no, I was reflecting on this. And I was thinking about all the things you learn as a student, and part of what you learn is like how to run a proxy station, or how to have a spiritual conversation. And sometimes what's missing are the transferable principles underneath. So I just started brainstorming, what are those transferable principles? For instance, like a proxy station is really about how do you build a bridge from any topic to Jesus. And sometimes these are topics that we love and are interested in. And sometimes these are topics that don't even offend us yet. There's a bridge to Jesus, right? It's x 17. Paul goes around, and he's looking at all the idol worship, and he's disturbed. And yet, Jesus helps them build a bridge using their poets to link to the Gospel. And so is that same principle. And so if you've run a proxy station, you've practiced that at least once. And so that's something that you can easily take out into the world, this idea of how can I build a bridge from the things that people are interested in? People are talking about to Jesus, another one, a lot of us did spiritual conversations, especially in New Student Outreach, who would ask people things like, what's your spiritual background? What does that mean to you? And that kind of spiritual conversation really has trained us and have asked really great questions. And when we're going out into the world, people are kind of indifferent to faith. And instead of like, knocking them with the gospel, if we ask more intriguing questions that really can awakens people's spiritual curiosity, and that's a principle that most InterVarsity students have practiced dozens of times as you welcome freshmen year after year, right?

Jon Steele  12:10  
Yes, absolutely. What are the things that are happening in this person's world that I can do the legwork of understanding to make it more accessible for them? And to be hospitable in that way?

Jamie Ladipo  12:20  
I think that's exactly right. And that really comes from one of our most popular frameworks, the five thresholds. And the five thresholds really can be a worldview beyond college, because instead of taking on what is the evangelist feeling during the whole thing, we're really down into what's happening for the non Christian that I think is a really healthy perspective, no matter who we're trying to get to know whatever sector of our life if we're dialed into what's going on with them. And we're thinking about what are our options to take the conversation deeper, whether it's building a friendship, asking questions, modeling vulnerability by talking about how Jesus is real in our lives, or helping someone really focus in on how do you seek Jesus? There's a million questions, but you really only need the most important question. And then ultimately asking if they want to follow Jesus, like those things are true. No matter what time in our life, we find ourselves.

Jon Steele  13:14  
Oh, that's so great, because many of us have grappled with the five thresholds, we've applied this framework on campus. Okay, where are my friends? And then what's the way that I contextualize the way I have a conversation with them? And saying, like, okay, how can I take this into my new context, and just rework what it looks like to apply it here and walk that journey with them? That's really helpful. Other things that you see as transferable skills from what we've done on campus to life after graduation?

Jamie Ladipo  13:41  
You know, one of the biggest principles, and I've already said it is start small. This is one thing we're learning with Gen Z. It's another thing that we're seeing just in general, as you move through big transitions, is don't think you have to do it all. Just pick one thing to get started with. And the nice thing about giving God a small Yes, is that he comes along and just pours the Holy Spirit on it. And all of a sudden, that one "Yes" has led to so many more things. And that's great.

Jon Steele  14:07  
That's fantastic. Sometimes I think we can take on more than is ours to take on of okay, you're I am my neighborhood. It's my job to bring Jesus to my neighborhood. And it's like, well, first of all, he was there before you got there. He's been at work in that space. And yeah, what's the small yes, that just starts to open the door for connecting with a person or a family or whatever it might be. And you don't have to think about your whole place of work your whole neighborhood. Yeah, that seems really helpful to think about. What's my first yes?

Jamie Ladipo  14:39  
You know, saying that; oftentimes, for students their first Yes, is inviting someone to Bible study or something like that. And what we tend to do as staff is training you to have, what's your invitation in your back pocket? What's your reason for going to small group and why should they come with you? I think you do the same thing. But you need a new line. It's not come to my Bible study, it might be something like, Oh, that's a really interesting comment. Thanks for sharing a little bit about that. When I think about my struggles with whatever my faith really comes into play, you'd like to get coffee and talk more about it outside of work, right? You have to have whatever your line is in your back pocket so that even though you're nervous, you kind of know in advance what you're going to say, yes, exactly. That intentionality is your act of love. It's an act of worship to Jesus. And it's how we show and demonstrate love to others.

Jon Steele  15:33  
One of the things that we're hearing from young alumni is that community is a big struggle. It's just getting to know people as a struggle. So as we're experiencing that reality, how do we share the Gospel? How do we incorporate loving people? Well, by inviting them to follow Jesus, or to investigate Jesus with us when we're struggling to even get to know people in the first place?

Jamie Ladipo  15:54  
Well, I have two thoughts about this. One is the skills of evangelism really help you with learning how to get into new communities, right, we've learned how do you bridge the gap and befriend someone for the sake of Jesus. And those often are the skills that we need to move into a new community and start to get to know people, it might feel more vulnerable. And it might feel kind of strange, but I think we actually rely on some of these campus ministry skills to start those friendships. And then when I'm going into a new group, I like to think of it's me and Jesus, not like every conversations about Jesus or whatever. But you know, like, oh, Jamie and Jesus are kind of a package deal. Most people actually are okay with that. They might be the weird quirk about you. But whatever they accept that you can say things like, one of my favorite things to do is to ask people the real questions and hear, where do you find your hope in life? Or how do you answer life's big questions? And then you just go back and forth? How do they think about the world? How do they think about life's large questions? And then how do you think about that? And it's very useful.

Jon Steele  17:05  
Absolutely. These are questions that we're all wondering about.

Jamie Ladipo  17:08  
One of the most helpful things we can do is model the kind of openness to Jesus that we hope others will begin to cultivate. And it's common as you're getting to know people, people aren't just talking about the positive things in life, but they're talking about struggles to one degree or another. If we're prepared to talk about how was Jesus meeting you and your loneliness? How was he meeting you and disappointment, and whatever you thought post college life would be all of those things are very human emotions, things that everyone experiences. And it doesn't have to be a long story. You know, the other day I was really struggling, I was alone in my apartment, and I didn't have anyone to call to go and do anything fun with and I was just disappointed. This isn't what I thought life would be. And so I took a moment and I prayed, I just shared honestly, with Jesus. And in prayer, I heard XYZ, you know, five, six sentences. But that models a kind of open posture and helps people start thinking, I wonder if God and wonder if Jesus could be a part of the solution for my struggles in just a very real way.

Jon Steele  18:16  
This almost feels like daily examen kind of stuff for us. If I'm more consistently thinking about where are the places that I'm inviting the Lord into my decision making? When I'm feeling lonely? When I'm feeling anxious? Am I starting to recognize like, Oh, Jesus, I'm feeling this way? Would you meet me in this and show me what is there for me to learn in this space. And as we're practicing that discipline ourselves, that also starts to feed into the way that we explain our engagement with those real life experiences with other people that Jesus is just a natural part of my process. And I wonder if he could be for yours as well.

Jamie Ladipo  18:52  
Exactly. And one of the nice things is, if you long for community, you want to be known, one of the best ways to be known is to give people access to who you are. And so sometimes you have to model what vulnerability looks like in appropriate ways and invite people to step into your vulnerability for a moment. And that's great, because they are starting to know you. But it's also there's something spiritual happening and that you're actually offering them Jesus through your vulnerability. And that's attractive.

Jon Steele  19:24  
Another thing that comes up for me as I'm thinking about sharing the gospel after we graduate is that when we're on campus, for the most part, we are connecting with our peers. We are sharing the gospel with people within just a few years of us. They have exceptions to these rules, certainly, but for the most part, we're sharing the gospel with our peers. When we move into this new stage of life. The door is just kind of open for people a cross generational lines to be doing life together, working together, whatever it might be, how do we engage well, across those generational lines with sharing the gospel when we've mostly been talking reigned in sharing the gospel with our peers.

Jamie Ladipo  20:03  
I think at the heart of it is, there's things that transcend generational lines, their experiences that draw us together in a workplace, whether it's things that are happening at work, whether it's going back to the things we were talking about earlier, the anger or loneliness, or disappointment. Those are, those are very human experiences. So there's ways to build a bridge and create a relationship that's beyond just the differences you might face. And I think you can lean on your skills a good question asking, the better we are at asking questions of drawing out someone else's life of driving the conversation deeper, the easier it is for us to figure out what is God doing, and what might be the link there. And then ultimately, when it comes to like sharing the gospel, all gospel summaries are limited in some way. Right? Like, there's no perfect gospel summary. Because just by summarizing it, you're emphasizing some things more or less. And instead of worrying about whether I'm getting it right, I just worry about whether I'm being faithful to share. And it turns out, God is so good at overcoming all of the generational barriers or whatever barriers there might be. And if someone is ready, if I've been talking with them, sometimes for hours, sometimes for years, they can hear the Gospel through my message, as imperfect as it is. So I think at the end of the day, I would say, be yourself. Let them see how you and Jesus work together and offer that to them. It may not be a perfect hand in glove, but that's okay. Evangelism is like baseball. It's not like high diving. And high diving. It's all about getting it perfect. Right? You enter the water perfectly. Yeah. 10 out of 10. Baseball, it's just about connecting with the ball and hoping you get a single. And if you can do that, some of the time you're an all star. Yeah, right, exactly. So think of it more like just connecting with someone just connecting with the ball instead of can I get everything perfect to meet this person exactly where they are, God is already there. And he's doing it perfectly. And he chose you to be a part of their life.

Jon Steele  22:13  
It makes me think about your story, Jamie. And I wonder how many times you know this person that invited you to Bible study how many times they had invited somebody else, and it was a swing and a miss, or you know, they connected but it took many Bible studies to see any sort of openness, or life change or whatever it might be, and then they talk to you. And it's like, homerun. But that it was it was probably the same swing that they had done every time was that I'm just going to be faithful to make the invitation. And and I'm going to let the Holy Spirit move in the way that the Holy Spirit moves. It also makes me think of the story of the of the farmer that goes out, plants, the seeds in season does whatever work he's supposed to do to till the soil, prepare this, but that he goes to sleep, and the seed just like grows. And it's this mysterious thing where the farmer does their job, and the Holy Spirit does their job. And it's the same thing for us today. Be faithful to make the invitation, you're not gonna say it perfectly. But the good news is you're not the one changing their heart. It's the Holy Spirit that's at work. And sometimes that'll be a base hit. Sometimes it'll be a total whiff, sometimes, sometimes it'll be a homerun.

Jamie Ladipo  23:27  
Exactly. Exactly. God is doing more than you can see. And so if we trust that, then we can trust that he's going to use our imperfect efforts perfectly.

Jon Steele  23:36  
Yes. Jamie, I'm, I'm certain that there are there so many more things that we could talk about, even as we're you know, as we're asking and answering these questions for the people listening, it's probably uncovering more questions. But there's only so much that we can do in this space. So that what I want to do is just the last question I always ask people is, what's one piece of parting advice that you would give that's related to these these things that we've talked about as someone's transitioning into this new season of life? If you could tell them one last thing, what would that be?

Jamie Ladipo  24:08  
The thing I would say is have grace with yourself, you're going through a massive transition. And for an entire year, you have not faced that kind of day before you've not done that day at work. You haven't perhaps even been in that city. There's so many things that are changing. So that's okay. Embrace being a part of the transition, try some things, experiment with how you want to be intentional and don't feel like you have to land it. It's okay to let that evolve and figure out, where's your place to be intentional? How do you continue to love God and love others, and just learn as you go?

Jon Steele  24:43  
That's great. It feels like sort of the work of a scientist, you're jumping into a field that you're like, I just I don't really know a lot about this. So I'm just going to try some stuff. And to know that whether or not the thing you try succeeds in that moment is not the measurement of of success or failure, that it's actually Did you try which feels like something that that comes up pretty frequently in this podcast? It's that trying is like that's your measurement of success. Did you? Did you attempt it? And then you just keep shaping and working and trying and experimenting, and slowly some things start to fall into place. And then you keep shaping even from there with those things. Exactly. I think that's I love that, to give yourself grace as you're experiencing, especially this first year of this first year of firsts. And then once you circle around to that anniversary, it's like, Okay, I've experienced this time before, what have I been learning over this last year that I can keep applying and trying in new ways? Exactly. Jamie, thank you so much. This has been I've learned a lot. This has been really encouraging. For me. I think it's given us some good some good handholds to think about as we move forward into how do I share the gospel after graduation. And, and I just really appreciate that, it feels like it doesn't have to be rocket scientist or rocket scientist, it doesn't have to be rocket science that we can, we can try, we can fail and that that's okay. And that we can just keep figuring things out as we go. Thanks so much for helping open open us up to that perspective in ways that maybe we maybe we didn't have before this conversation.

Jamie Ladipo  26:16  
Thank you. It's been great.

Musical Interlude

Wrap up

Jon Steele  26:19  
I don't know about you, but I just love it when I already have skills in my back pocket that can be transferred to a new situation. Yes, there's some learning that needs to happen in the realm of context and application. But the foundations are essentially the same. After talking to Jamie, it's nice to know that that's really the case here. If you've led someone through a proxy prepped and asked a spiritual question, or received some sort of training with your chapter in the five thresholds, you officially have tools to do the job of sharing Jesus in your new context after graduation. What are the relevant topics that your coworkers are discussing during breaks? And what does Jesus have to do with those things? There you go using your proxy skills you're ready to engage? Is your neighbor trusting of Christians? Are they curious about faith? Are they actively searching for answers? take what you've learned from your time with the five thresholds and tailor your conversations to their current spiritual needs. And whatever tools are most helpful for engaging those around you with the gospel. Remember that God is going ahead of you, you aren't convincing him to take care of that person. He's already at work. You are the new one on the singing, and he's inviting you to play a role. I think that removes a lot of unnecessary burdens from us. And also remember that for most of us, it's always going to feel a little anxiety inducing to engage our friends with the gospel. This isn't about overcoming fear or finding exactly the right approach. It's about love and compassion for others because of the love that we share with Jesus. No matter where you find yourself. Love for Jesus and love for others is always the foundation that we're building on as we prayerfully approach sharing the gospel. Jamie, thanks so much for joining us. On this episode, you've given us so many practical steps forward for finding a rhythm for sharing the gospel after graduation. I'm really glad that we got to have this conversation. For the rest of you be sure to tune in next time as the one and only Caitlin Steele returns to the show. Last time she was with us. She helped us tune up our resumes in preparation for nailing the interview. This time, she's going to help us understand how our InterVarsity experience, specifically, is a goldmine for building a quality resume, even if you aren't stepping into professional ministry. Until then, I'll see you in the after alumni.

Podcast Outro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Jon Steele
Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Alumni. If there was anything that you learned, really enjoyed, or that encouraged you from today's episode, would you send us a DM or tag us in a story? We'd love to hear about it. You can find us @afterivpod on Instagram and Facebook. And if you haven't already, take just a second to unlock your phone and subscribe to the podcast. If your platform lets you, leave us a rating and a review. And if you like what we're doing here, share us with your InterVarsity or other post-graduation friends. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you in the after, Alumni.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai