After IV
I'm A Rocket Man!: Following Jesus as a NASA Rocket Scientist
 
Podcast Intro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Jon Steele  0:09  
Hey everyone. I'm Jon Steele. And this is After IV, a podcast for InterVarsity alumni life after college is hard. And even a great experience with your University chapter doesn't shield you from the challenges of transition, as we hear stories from real alumni learning how to make it in their posts InterVarsity reality. My hope is that this podcast will offer some encouragement, a few laughs and even some hope for the future. This is After IV. And these are your stories. 

Welcome

Jon Steele
Hello, and welcome to After IV, the podcast for InterVarsity alumni. I'm your host Jon Steele. As always, it's great to be together for another episode this week. And if it's your first time joining us, welcome, I am so glad that you made it for this episode. A quick announcement before we meet today's guest, including this week, we have three more episodes that we're going to release before taking a short two week break at the beginning of April. Then we'll be back in mid April with our next batch of 10 episodes, more info to come on what those episodes will look like. But I just wanted to give you a heads up right now so that you didn't get sad when April rolled around and you didn't have your next episode of After IV queued up. But enough about that. Let's move on to today's episode. Today we are joined by an honest to goodness rocket scientist who works for NASA. Yes, NASA. It's crazy. His name is Anson and he's an alumnus from the InterVarsity chapter at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. He's been working for NASA for about 10 years now. We had a really fun conversation, we get to chat about the work that he does with NASA, the interaction that science and faith have together in his relationship with Jesus and with others and what it looks like to be a faithful Christ follower in his context. I'm gonna let Anson tell the rest of the story that this one's for you alumni. 

Musical Interlude
 
Interview

Jon Steele
Anson, welcome to the podcast. Excited to have you here.

Anson Koch  2:00  
Thanks for having me.

Jon Steele  2:01  
Hey, Anson, give us just a little introduction to who you are. Help us get to know you a little bit before we dig into alumni life together.

Anson Koch  2:10  
Yeah, my name is Anson and I first got connected with university at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in upstate New York. Go read go white, studied aerospace engineering. And from there started working at NASA while I was in college through the pathways internship program, and I was able to then come on to work full time for NASA when I graduated.

Jon Steele  2:32  
Okay, so aerospace engineering and you work for NASA. So is it safe to say that you were like literally a rocket scientist?

Anson Koch  2:39  
Yeah, yeah, you could say that.

Jon Steele  2:42  
That's amazing. Is your area of expertise more? What happens on the ground and prepping things to go vertical? Or do you know a lot about outer space and the things happening there?

Anson Koch  2:53  
So the stuff I do at work is I run a lot of computational models of propulsion systems. So it can be for engines that go on launch vehicles, or for your upper stage in space propulsion, kind of work in both areas.

Jon Steele  3:09  
Okay, nice. So getting off the ground and staying off the ground. You do a little bit of both.

Anson Koch  3:15  
Yep, exactly.

Jon Steele  3:17  
That's super cool. Okay, so Ansan, I want to talk a little bit more about this. And here, just some of the context of what it looks like to be you in this field. And to live into that. But let's keep digging into how you got there just a little bit. I imagine that InterVarsity has played a role in developing you into who you are today, the way that you engage with the world around you. But how did you meet InterVarsity in the first place?

Anson Koch  3:39  
Our chapter's club name on campus was the most generic name you could have for a Christian club on that campus. Our chapter was known as the Rensselaer Christian Association. And at first I didn't know what university was or what it meant to be a chapter of university. But as I got more involved with the chapter, then learned, like, alright, it's part of this larger movement, start to get to know what university was through different retreats that we would go on. I ended up getting impressed with the way that university really encouraged leadership and scriptural study among their students. I feel like college was kind of the place where I was able to really take my faith from being something that was just something that my parents gave me and actually make it my own thing.

Jon Steele  4:24  
I can very much identify with that engaging in Scripture with InterVarsity was sort of this revelatory experience for me. I'd spent many years reading my Bible, but gosh, the way that we got to study scripture together was just it, like, opened up a brand new world for me. You talk about studying Scripture together, you talk about leadership experiences and conferences and camps and things like that. Is there like a particular Anson and InterVarsity moment that stands out to you if like, oh, this just paints a picture of my experience?

Anson Koch  4:53  
Yeah, I think one moment that really stuck with me that just kind of really felt like a turning point in my life was freshman year. their fall conference. This was like my first time really spending extended amount of time with the others. My university chapter, I remember was Sunday morning, fall foliage in upstate New York, sitting by his lake at the retreat center, we were at it, I was just kind of sitting there praying. But I remember that being very much a turning point, because that's where I got the sense that God was doing that work with me to say, like, Hey, I'm going to take you on a journey to like, get to know me in a whole new way. Or you're going to pursue faith in a way that you've never really thought about before. You know, it kind of felt like a very important moment, and sort of like a coming of age experience, as I, you know, maturity might be as a college student.

Jon Steele  5:40  
That's super cool, especially that early on, that's sort of a time and a lot of students InterVarsity trajectory that really sets the tone as far as stepping into the community in a new way. And that's really cool that in that moment, you had this engagement with God, as you're looking at the colors in upstate New York, that he's telling you, I'm about to change the way that you engage with me, that's really cool to have gotten to have that experience as a freshman that sort of prepared you for what was to come with this community. And so this is actually a question that I wasn't anticipating asking you. So I apologize, I didn't prep you whatsoever for but knowing your background in aerospace engineering, because that's just so not how my brain works in any of those capacities, you and I just think on like totally different levels from one another. I'd really like to know, because of the background to the study that you've done, the world that you live in now, are there unique ways that you engage with God or see him at work?

Anson Koch  6:37  
Yeah, I think there's an untapped theological well, in the world of astronomy and astrophysics. Aerospace engineering, you know, doesn't do a lot of that. But they're closely related, because a lot of what we do ends up enabling some of the great advancements that we see in those fields. I think that being in that world, but also having the perspective of having faith in God, I think it encourages a different way to imagine how the story of Scripture is going to play out, thinking about the fact that our universe is mind bogglingly huge. Something like 90 billion light years across, don't quote me on that number, but it's, it's huge. And when you start taking things like that, and comparing it to, you know, a lot of the ideas of the new creation and what God's gonna bring to reality. Yeah, I just think there's an untapped well.

Jon Steele  7:27  
Yeah, I have a feeling that you have an understanding of the vastness of creation than I do not. And so I have to think that that must develop some special kind of awe within you of like, this is what our God is capable of. In Scripture, we have this tiny, tiny, tiny story of creation, that in comparison to the whole of creation is just like, we just don't even understand how big the work is that God actually did. Yeah, and how awesome it is, then that he zooms in for our story, the creation of humans, to instill his image in us this tiny, seemingly insignificant part of this vast creation, I'd have to think that you just get to experience that in a really cool way that makes that even more mind blowing.

Anson Koch  8:18  
Yeah, for sure. One of the things my pastor always remind us of is that God incarnating as a human, was a humiliation for him. And the more you understand about the universe, the more that kind of drives at home, you know, how big and expansive and transcendent God is. And then you understand that he created this massive universe that we in some sense, have no idea how big it actually is. And then for him to incarnate as one human on this small rock whirling around a little, insignificant star.

Jon Steele  8:52  
And isn't that just so cool that you can see that story in the way that creation is played out? But that's also the story that's told all throughout Scripture? Oh, yeah. Like, you have Abraham, this insignificant nobody. And God's like, Yeah, sure. God, I'm gonna bless the world through you. Why not? And you know, on sort of a cosmic level has a he just done that at every stop along the way? Who are we to even be the place that God chose to do this really cool creating and to carry out his story? It's just mind blowing. Definitely. Well, we've sort of shot off into this interesting place. Let's go back to the college experience here. You said that you got to experience working with NASA even before you graduated, correct?

Anson Koch  9:33  
Yeah, that came through just going to the career fair one here connecting with some people from Marshall Space Flight Center. And a few months later, they contacted me about an opening for their pathways internship program, and that's how I ended up applying and coming out to work in the propulsion systems department, the beginning of my junior year.

Jon Steele  9:53  
And then once you graduated, you were able to just slip straight into a full time position from there? 

Anson Koch  9:58  
Yeah, through the Pathways internship program, you have the option typically to come work full time, essentially in the same position once you graduate.

Jon Steele  10:07  
Wow. So basically securing that internship is essentially securing a future job. 

Anson Koch
In a sense. Yeah. 

Jon Steele
Okay. As long as you don't totally screw it up, correct. Okay, so then how long have you been working with NASA?

Anson Koch  10:20  
A few months ago, I finally hit the 10-year mark. 

Jon Steele  10:22  
Wow, a decade with NASA. That's super cool. What's that experience been like for you? I mean, because, again, little old me who NASA is just, you know, Apollo 13. Level. That's what comes to my mind. When I think about NASA. You're actually like, in the thick of it? What's that experience been like for you? For 10 years working with NASA?

Anson Koch  10:43  
It's been pretty wild. Like anything, it's got its ups and downs. But is it just sort of feeling like a normal job, you know, sometimes even looks like a normal job. You know, I go into a cubicle and I run models all day and look at graphs. But the really cool part is just being part of a mission where we're pushing the edge of what humanity is capable of doing. We're looking for new ways to send humans into space we're looking for how can we answer some of the bigger pressing questions of science? I especially love all the pictures and all the sciences coming out of like the James Webb Space Telescope.

Jon Steele  11:18  
No kidding. That stuff is awesome. 

Anson Koch  11:20  
Yeah, I was up at 6 am Christmas morning, when it launched, watching it go up. Praying that, you know, everything would be alright, so...

Jon Steele  11:30  
Totally. This is another place where the relationship between the creativeness of humans and the creativeness of God, sort of like, you know, God is creative. And he made it so that we can be creative too. And that there's some of the creating that we can do that sort of catches us up or makes us more aware of God's creation, even though it's still beyond what we there's stuff that God's made that we will never discover. I'm convinced Oh, yeah, that he just created it because he can and like, he's the only one who will ever know about it. And that's just amazing. But that, you know, there are these things that he gives us the ability to do so that we can catch up a little bit and say, like, Oh, we're seeing stuff we've never seen before. This is super amazing. Yep, exactly. Thinking about your post graduation experience in these last 10 years or so have there been things that have been particularly challenging for you moving into this part of your life?

Anson Koch  12:21  
I think one of the biggest challenges was going through a period of, I guess I would almost say like spiritual questioning spiritual doubts. It was this weird moment where I was looking back to college and thinking like, you know, I wasn't having these questions in college, I was in my Christian community, we were praying together and encouraging each other in our walks with Christ, and then I come off into the post college world. And I think I just kind of went through this struggle of trying to understand what that so put a lot more effort into building my spiritual community around me, and knowing how to be a part of that well, and in one sense, I don't think I was ready for that sort of transition, you know, then going into this time of spiritual doubt, I ended up having all the big, deep questions about, you know, is this really real? Can I really trust scripture? Can I trust who God says He is? And a lot of the questions I had coming out of that time of spiritual darkness, it wasn't really that they were answered, but it was more like God was demonstrating His faithfulness towards us, because he was there with me through the darkness through the doubt through the questions. And I think going through that time, the biggest thing I learned there was not so much like, you know, God's not just like, a reference for us to just pull answers from. He's a person, he's someone that we relate to. And that was the big thing, learning how to relate to him, not just on a knowledge level, but on a heart level. And I think that was the most valuable thing to get from going through. So dark valleys of doubts and questions.

Jon Steele  14:04  
So it sounds like the sense that you walked away with was almost this, like, these dark times, they sort of like they they happen. It's sort of a natural part of this process. But the recognition was that the Lord as a person, as a friend was walking through that with you, and that there was a need just to continue engaging with the Lord, like you said, not only in the sort of knowledge base that I have, but what does it look like for me to keep growing in this relational inside of me at a heart level with the Lord? And that that didn't necessarily answer all the questions like those questions, those concerns, it's possible for them to live side by side with a faithful walk with Jesus while still being unsure about things.

Anson Koch  14:48  
Right. Yeah, cuz the thing to be sure about is the story of Jesus and then all the other things that fall from that like following in his footsteps living by his commands, doing our best to teach others do the same. Those are the things that we can have certainty about. And some of the bigger questions where you start getting to the philosophical rabbit holes of like the problem of evil. There's definitely value in thinking through those and engaging with that. But then, you know, can you come out on the other side still believing in God?

Jon Steele  15:21  
Right. So I'm going to ask a question that maybe feels like I'm pitting the two against each other. And that's not my intention, you have pulled hard on the lever of science for a long time. And I think that there are ways that you are innately made to think and there are also ways that you are taught to think critically, scientifically, where is evidence, I mean, the work that you're doing right now, you said, you're like working through models and trajectories and graphs, before something is actually constructed and a potential human being is strapped to it, you have to have evidence that this thing is going to work and that it's going to work consistently. Right. So it seems to me that the idea of evidence and certainty and being able to back up saying this is a good idea, we should move forward with this, I imagine that you and the community that you're a part of holds that with a special reverence, what has it been like for you navigating some of those big questions, when a huge part of your life is built around gold standard scientific? Like, what is that like for you?

Anson Koch  16:25  
I think there's definitely points where there can be some tension. But then there's also points where science as a way of thinking is one of the many tools I have like in my toolbox, when it comes to like designing a rocket propulsion system and everything, we absolutely need to use that tool and back things up with test results with data, make sure our models are anchored Well, in reality, have good peer review processes, then when it comes to things in like more of a faith realm, I think I still bring a little bit of that to the table. And that I do want to see different theological points or whatever backed up in some way with, if you will, but data of Scripture, I think that's one way I like to think about it. But then also kind of realizing that there are also moments where God's calling us to take steps in faith where we don't know everything, and we have to be able to trust His guidance. The big difference is that we can absolutely fully and completely trust God. And that kind of trust isn't always something that you find when you start looking at the world of numbers and in hard data. Because there's always uncertainty, your sensors are only so precise, even the best design, you've still got different uncertainties that are built in. That's part of the sciences, accounting for all those uncertainties. I think they both kind of inform each other in the sense that there definitely is that desire to have things backed up in some way. But the big differences when it comes to questions of faith, we've got God who, you know, we can put all our trust in Him. And it's always going to turn out in the way that he intends it.

Jon Steele  18:08  
Two things that are really interesting to me. And they relate to each other. At least I think they do. Let me know if I'm putting words in your mouth here. But you said science is one of the tools that I have. It's one of the tools that you use for explaining and understanding the world around you one of those places where we can discover God's truth. I think that that's a really interesting perspective. The other thing that you said is comparing things to the data of Scripture. Scripture as a foundation to build decisions off of that scripture is a particular type of data that you can bring to the table and say, Well, how does what you're presenting to me fit with what this thing says, holding things up to the scrutiny of Scripture. And that feels like a perspective that we oftentimes miss out on that we put the cart before the horse on that. And we say like, well, I'm going to hold scripture up to the scrutiny of fill in the blank thing and see if it lines up. And that's how I'll choose truth as opposed to No, this is actually my rock solid data here, when it comes to the way that I live my life when it comes to sort of these broader ways that I think about the world. And I think about interacting with other people. This is my standard, how do things match up to this data? And that helps me make my decisions. 

Anson Koch  19:17  
Yeah, I think that's a good way to summarize it. One of the ways I think that I've, you know, the past few years I've been learning is that the Bible answers the most important questions for us. But it doesn't always answer every question you bring to it. The Bible doesn't really talk much about the earth being round, seems it's four corners and floating on a bunch of water, and then there's water above that sometimes falls out. And in that sense, it doesn't give me good information about how to fly Rocket Space. It just doesn't but that's okay because they weren't writing the Bible to teach how to go to space. They were writing it to answer questions about who God is what does it mean for us to be made in His image? And how do we live into that?

Jon Steele  20:04  
Absolutely. That's awesome. Letting things speak into what they were meant to speak into, and being okay with the fact that it doesn't speak into everything. But the most important questions, it answers. I love that. That's an awesome perspective. And I wonder for you, as you think about over the course of 10 years, there's been a lot of your own personal faith development, what does it look like to be a follower of Jesus? What does that been like for you? And I'm not asking for you to give like a sterling perfect example. We're just talking reality, what is it been like for you to even figure out how to engage faith in the workplace? That's a very real thing that we all wonder about. And we all have our own unique context that we work in for engaging faith in the workplace. What's that been like for you?

Anson Koch  20:47  
Yeah. You know, there's all those questions. And I feel like there's an extra layer on top of it working for the federal government. 

Jon Steele  20:53  
Yeah, totally. Oh, my gosh, I'm sure there's parts to this answer. You can't even give us and that's okay. 

Anson Koch  20:58  
Right. But I think the, I think one of the ways I've been trying to navigate being a faithful Christian, and an engineer who follows Jesus is just learning to follow him God's footsteps, in creativity in trying to do the best job I call not for my own sake, but more for the sake of those around. You know, NASA gives itself a very broad category of people that we serve, you know, we like to say, for the benefit of all mankind, that's something I can get behind.

Jon Steele  21:28  
It actually feels like one of the four loves that we talk about within a varsity, you know, love for God's people of every ethnicity and culture of love for God's purposes in the world. It feels like it's sort of related to a couple of those things. 

Anson Koch  21:40  
Yep, exactly. I, I guess I can say, I wouldn't be the person to come to to talk about how do you have an evangelistic conversation with someone in the next cubicle over. But when it comes to being faithful, showing up to do the work, and sticking with it through the good times, and also the challenging times where things are frustrating. And sometimes you just got to deal with things that you don't want to be dealing with, whether it's conflict in the workplace, or maybe there's times where there's strong opinions between coworkers, or arguments going around about how to do things. That's a chance for me to live in the moments of pursuing peace, finding ways to resolve conflicts, not in a way that just ignores issues, but actually addressing the issues and taking the moment to understand somebody else's perspective. There's a lot of ways that developing my faith has also made me a, I hope, at least a better coworker.

Jon Steele  22:39  
Yeah, it sounds like perspective of in everything you do, do it as unto the Lord, that your job is not about satisfying the tasks that your boss has given. I'm not just getting stuff done. So we can get rockets to the moon, you know, whatever. You know that it's like, no, this is an ability that the Lord has given to me. And I want to do the absolute best that I can in the work that I do, and in the ways that I engage with my team at work. And in those things, I set a precedent for maybe doing things differently. I'm sure that you're surrounded by super smart, really hard workers, but in the way that you deal with conflict, or do you deal with frustration getting shut down in something that you're trying to do that, like people can look at that and say, like, oh, Ansan just deals with that differently? I wonder why that is? Maybe that starts to cultivate something. And maybe it's not even a something that you get to see come to fruition, but it's a seed that you get to plant that opens up people's curiosity to like, why why is he different? Why does he respond differently from the rest of us when things go absolutely wrong? I mean, that feels like a way to be faithful in the workplace for sure. Yeah, I think so. So answered whether it's related to these things or not. I wonder, as you think about somebody that's just getting ready to step into or has just recently stepped into their post graduation reality? Do you have any words of advice or solace or something that you would give to someone in that stage?

Anson Koch  24:08  
Yeah, I think kind of the things I needed to hear. And I hope that it's still helpful for those in that situation. I think taking the time to really understand how little decisions throughout the day have a big impact on our spiritual formation. That's one of those things that in the past few years, as I've gotten to really interrogate that more, and to start actually being a little more intentional about some of those things. I think it's starting to have a big difference in my spiritual life for the good. You know, one example might be really taking the time to interrogate your relationship with say, like social media or like smartphones is it's such a simple thing, but it was having a big impact on my life in the past, you know, really taking the time to bring that before God through the big lists and think through like, what do I actually Eat, and what are some of the better things I can be doing? Just following the Lord's guidance. And that has been really helpful. This isn't just to say, like, app, delete social media, that's really not what people need to hear. But I think what you really need to hear is really taken into mind that model of Jesus being our rabbi and us being his disciples, and really taking that whole approach to spiritual disciplines and spiritual formation seriously. I know me and a lot of friends and church have been having a lot of conversations about that. And it's been great to be like, encouraging each other towards spiritual formation in that iron sharpens iron way. So yeah, definitely take the time to understand the trajectory of your spiritual formation. And like understanding like, is that a trajectory God wants you on.

Jon Steele  25:51  
And I love that that can come about just simply by observing or interrogating is us, which I think is a really great way of like interrogating the decisions that we're making throughout the day, if there are things that we want to help us understand how we're being discipled, whether that's as a disciple of Jesus, or a disciple of the world, the decisions that we make, even the little ones throughout the day are a really good indicator of where our discipleship journey is going. That feels super accessible to me, because those are things that I'm doing. I'm making decisions every day. And what do those decisions say about who I'm following or what I'm following? I think that's fantastic advice, Anson, that makes me want to be like, Okay, how do I apply that? Well, tomorrow? Like, how do I start using that? Well, of the decisions that I make, and what that says about my discipleship, that's awesome. And so this has been an incredibly fun conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. And just speaking into the post graduation life, from your own perspective, in this really cool place that you get to work and the job that you get to do that most of us don't get to, but that you're an alum, just like the rest of us, and that we can identify together with these things. So thanks for helping us keep learning what it looks like to follow Jesus Well, in our post graduation life.

Anson Koch  27:12  
Yeah. Thanks again for having me. I really enjoyed being able to chat with you.

Musical Interlude
 
Wrap up

Jon Steele  27:18  
Okay, so I've somewhat jokingly somewhat seriously made a big deal out of Ansons occupation and in place of work. I mean, he is a NASA rocket scientist. After all, I think when we leave it there, it has the potential to make Anson seem almost otherworldly or something. But the reality is Anson is someone figuring out this stage of life just like you and me. He has big questions about faith and the world around him that he's working through. He's still working through what it looks like to be a Christ follower in his profession. And as he mentioned, in his parting advice, just like you and me, his daily decisions are worth examining for the impact that they have on his relationship with Jesus. I love how as an alumni community, we can have such diverse post graduation experiences, and yet have so much in common. And that's one of many reasons why we do this podcast so that we can highlight the shared bond that we all have as alumni who are learning how to navigate this life, and to enjoy the differences that we bring to the table as well. Anson, thanks so much for joining us this week. I so appreciate your story and the wealth of knowledge that we can glean from your experiences. And for the rest of you come back next week. For a return visit from Betty Dickinson. You might remember Betty, she joined us last season to share about her book making room and adventure and to help us continue in our explanation of the Advent season. Next week. She's coming back for another stop on our trip through the church calendar as we talk about the Annunciation: Mary's encounter with the angel Gabriel as she learns that she has been chosen to bring the long awaited Messiah into the world. This was not a day that was recognized in any of the churches that I grew up in. So it was a real learning experience for me. We're going to talk about why this is such a significant moment in Scripture and why it has meaning for us today. So come back next week and learn something new with me. 

Podcast Outro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Alumni. If there was anything that you learned, really enjoyed, or they encouraged you from today's episode, would you send us a DM or tag us in a story? We'd love to hear about it. You can find us @afterivpod on Instagram and Facebook. And if you haven't already, take just a second to unlock your phone and subscribe to the podcast. If your platform lets you leave us a rating and a review. And if you like what we're doing here, share us with your InterVarsity or other post graduation friends. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you in the after, alumni

Transcribed by https://otter.ai