After IV
Single, Just Because: A Conversation About Singleness with Bridget Gee
 
Podcast Intro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Jon Steele  0:09  
Hey everyone. I'm Jon Steele. And this is After IV: a podcast for InterVarsity alumni. Life after college is hard. And even a great experience with your University chapter doesn't shield you from the challenges of transition. As we hear stories from real alumni learning how to make it in their post-InterVarsity reality, my hope is that this podcast will offer some encouragement, a few laughs and even some hope for the future. This is After IV, and these are your stories.

Welcome

Hello, hello, and welcome to After IV, the podcast for University alumni. I'm your host, Jon Steele. As always, it's a pleasure being together for another episode. And if it's your first time joining us on the podcast, welcome. I'm so glad you made it today. Hey, on today's episode of After IV, we're covering a topic that I think all of us can appreciate, because it's something we all have in common. And that's singleness. Now, obviously, not all of us are currently single. But at the very least, we've all been single at some point. And unless you were just totally spared from it. I think we've all felt some sort of pressure at one time or another to not be single. Sometimes that's a pressure that's placed on us by others or by our culture. Sometimes it's a pressure that we put on ourselves. And we can get this sense that singleness is just a phase and it's a phase that we get through as quickly and painlessly as possible. And that until we do we are less than our guest this week is going to help us develop a different paradigm for thinking about singleness, and it's incredibly helpful. This week, we're joined by InterVarsity alumna and author Bridget G. Bridget recently published a book with IVP called single just because a pilgrimage into holy aloneness. I love this book. And I love the important reframe that it provides for singleness and how it puts our discipleship relationship with Jesus at the center of the story. All right, let's meet Bridget. This one's for you, alumni. 

Musical Interlude
 
Interview

Bridget, welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you here today. 

Bridget Gee
Yes, thank you. 

Jon Steele
And Happy Valentine's Day. I mean, I guess as people are listening, it won't be Valentine's Day anymore. But you know, we can name it that it's Valentine's Day when we're doing this.

Bridget Gee  2:13  
Yeah, exactly. I love that.

Jon Steele  2:15  
Yes, me too. Well, hey, Bridget, let's just jump right in. For those who don't know you. Would you take just a moment to introduce yourself. Tell us just a little bit about who you are Bridget?

Bridget Gee  2:24  
Yeah, of course. Well, my name is Bridget G. I live in Arizona, the desert part of Arizona. So that means the weather's beautiful right now, best time of year, which also just means that I get to be outside a lot. And there's not a lot that keeps me from being really active until it's summertime. And then you just have to be active indoors which is okay. I am the spiritual formation coordinator for a university study abroad team. So really what it means is that I'm the director of our European journey programs, which are pilgrimages for study abroad students, but our programs have expanded to anybody basically, who's remotely connected staff, alumni, and partners can come on our trips to Ireland, Italy or Spain.

Jon Steele  3:10  
Bridget tell us just a little bit about where did you go to school? What did you study? When did you graduate? And how was it that you came to be involved with InterVarsity in the first place?

Bridget Gee  3:19  
I mean, the whole story is kind of funny. I didn't really want to do college because I knew I wanted to do ministry, but I was in a college prep program in high school. So I was one of those nerds, and you kind of just have to go to college if that's the case. So I was looking for the school that will give me the scholarship since I worked my butt off in high school. And that was the University of Arizona. And I also was looking for a school that had a creative writing program. So I do have a degree in writing. And I also studied Spanish and Religious Studies, and I heard about university before I started going to school. I originally thought I was gonna go to Northern Arizona University. And I had friends up there who knew about university and I was like, sounds like a sports Christian club. And not really me. And then one of my buddies was a part of it up there at NAU, and he was in basketball in college. So I was like, for sure it's a sports thing then. But as time went closer, I decided to go to the University of Arizona, and I ran into one of my high school kind of friend connections, and she was down at U of A and I said, Are you part of a Christian group? Because I knew about crew and she said, Oh, I'm a part of University and she wasn't an athlete. So I was like, oh, and she said, Yeah, our vision is for 40,000 and their families to know Jesus, which was the entire campus and their families. And so then I was sold before ever stepping foot on campus because I wanted to do ministry. The funny thing is I talked to my staff worker who like, ended up becoming like my supervisor, you know, at a later point, and I told him the story and he was like, that was never our vision. And I was like, wow, that's it. be exactly what I needed to hear. God was doing his own thing. And I could never have guessed that university staff would lead me down the path that has for the fact that my job is I have to go to Europe and have a front row seat to people spiritual walks and momentum. And then also, yes, such a hard job and then also become an author. So yeah, for me, InterVarsity has been a blessing over and over again. So I'm really one one of the luckiest ones.

Jon Steele  5:31  
That's awesome. Having spent some time in the campus staff world as well, it's not surprising to me to hear that a student would share a vision that was not actually the vision that you're sharing. But I do wonder how many people have gotten deeply involved in InterVarsity, because of an inaccurate vision that somebody else shared with them that they were like, "I'm totally down for that. Let's go!" And you're like, "oh, wait a second. That's not exactly right. But oh, well."

Bridget Gee  5:55  
Absolutely.

Jon Steele  5:56  
Bridget, you recently wrote a book. And can I just say, your sense of humor in that book just like jumps off the page? I love it. Your wisdom, your vulnerability. I mean, the way that you use story just made your book feel so accessible. Would you tell us just a little bit about this book? Tell us the title since I haven't and tell us what inspired it. What prompted you to write this book?

Bridget Gee  6:20  
Well, thank you. Because I would say a sense of humor, wisdom and vulnerability are the buzzwords I just hope to hear about my book, just played right into my scheme. My books called single just because a pilgrimage and to Holy aloneness. And basically, back in probably 2016, I felt really compelled to start writing more and talking more about singleness, I was about to be 27, I guess, and 2016. And I felt like okay, I'm definitely ripening like I am, at this age where a lot of people don't make it this far in their singleness in American Christian culture. There's just a lot of things I felt unsatisfied by. And so I was sort of poking around to see how can, how can I have these conversations and like, express these concerns, or even just try it to have a new discipleship happen. And so they talked to Al Sheikh, one of the senior editors of IVP. And he actually wrote a book called singles at the crossroads that was published in 1997. And he was like, we for sure, need a new singleness book, because it's been 20 years since my book came out. And I was kind of like, okay, I just don't know if I want to be the singleness lady. And he was like, that's true, you'd have to be that for a little bit, at least. And there's a whole lot of things that stopped me from reading the book, then in there. And I just think that, you know, this pilgrimage motif that is throughout my book is a great way to look at things. So pilgrimage, right? It's a spiritual journey, from a place that you are to a place that you belong. It's kind of how I define it. But even for me, I think I needed the journey to get to the place where I could say yes to writing this book. And that didn't happen until I was like 31. And I had to get over the parts of me that felt like I had to produce something that people wanted from me. I'm talking about an important topic. But if I do it in a Brigit way, it's not going to be all deep and academic. And I think that what audiences sort of want, there's like three things. They they want a self help guide. They want a comprehensive theology of singleness, or they want a dating book, like, teach me how to date. Well, my books, none of those things. So I think I did get over that. And then I was able, yeah, it took me three months to write it. I had a friend coached me and I just felt really lucky that IVP wanted my book.

Jon Steele  8:47  
So you're talking about these three things that your book is not and as as I'm reading, the sense that I got is it feels like singleness is the backdrop. The backdrop for discipleship? Yeah, singleness isn't the thing learning to follow. Jesus is the thing and singleness is just the place where you're learning to follow Jesus. Absolutely. So Bridget, one of the vignettes that we set up here, as we're talking with guests is sort of expectation versus reality will frame the specifically around the the context of of singleness. And so I wonder for you as you were going into graduation, what were your expectations around singleness community relationships, and then what was reality like for you post graduation?

Bridget Gee  9:31  
Yeah. I think what's always true, is that life with Jesus, reality is always better than you can even like if you have a really beautiful dream. It always turns out better. But I think one of the problems I have is I have two sets of expectations. One is the one that culture gives me. And in regards to my singleness, I thought for sure I'd be married by 20 For, I was like, Yeah, I've elitist. That seems like a healthy age to get married. Nowadays, I would not say that 24 year old me getting married. It's kind of funny. I think that's a cultural expectation that I carried. And then I think there was this question along the way of like, the longer I went single, and I talk about all these things in my book, but I kind of explored desire a lot. I desire to be in close, intimate relationship with people when it's not happening in a romantic context. So could it happen and community with my friends, and I feel like I was really spoiled that first year, I was doing my intern year with a university in Boulder, Colorado, and lived with the two girls on the team. And the two guys on the team lived next door I write about this group in my book, are these the left turns, the left turns such a great time, like, really, we had a wonderful year, we got to be there with each other and all of the, you know, monotony and beauty of life, and it was just everything you know, and so it's not that I've stacked every context against that first year, it's just that I think that God gave me the gift of tasting what kingdom community looks like. And I think I just have really high expectations for what kingdom friendships supposed to look like. Which of course means that it's disappointed all the time. I talk with a lot of my closest friends about this, because some of my friends I've been friends with for most of my life, and we laugh about how our friendships going on two decades, and like how did we continue to evolve to be people that are good for each other. And then I have friends who have been in my life most of my adult life to and most of my post college life, and whether they're married or not, I think they have really similar desires for community. A lot of my friends got married at those young ages, and then found themselves lonely. And so we're in all in the same conversation, saying, how do we do this? How do we fill up our social cup, but like, it's so much more than that. And I think that God wants that for us. He wants us to have that closeness and unity and something that's beyond the nuclear family. But we sat all because I think it is actually easier to just dump all of your expectations on a romantic relationship, and then a family and that unit, like, okay, let's contain this to this one place. So that's another expectation, I think we have. And I make this joke about it in my book. And in my life for a long time, I was really fooled into believing that once I get married, all of a sudden, I'll have really great habits. And I'll be like my best gosh, yes. And my like husband is going to be my personal chef and trainer and accountabilibuddy, as we like to say, and Christianity, when really what I want in marriage is a best friend partner, you know, to like share life with, it's up to me to eat healthy exercise, go to therapy to make my spiritual rhythms. So I just think there's a lot of funny things that we project onto marriage, like it's going to become some kind of saving grace for us. And at its best, I hope that's what it is, at times, you know, but yeah, I mean, I had expected I would not be single this long. I think what I play with is this idea of 20 year old me, she would have been shocked to find out that I was still single at 33. But she would be so delighted and really look up to 33 year old me at the life that God has given me because it's so much more who I am.

Jon Steele  13:36  
Which I think continues to lend credence to why this is a discipleship conversation and not just like, am I with somebody or not. That the question is, how are you growing in Jesus, and in your sense of self through that and what it looks like to have healthy relationships vertically, horizontally and internal. Exactly. And that that doesn't change just because you get married? There's just different relationships that are involved in the equation. And Bridget is we're getting snapshots of post graduation, Bridget and the expectation versus reality, I think it's probably easier for us to say like, are there particular challenges that came up for you in this, it would be interesting to hear, you know, one or two of those. But I think even more I'd like to lean in the direction of what are the opportunities that you've seen come out of this phase of life? And so can you talk a little bit about some of the challenges that you experienced, but also some of these, like, these are great opportunities that are available in the reality that I'm living in.

Bridget Gee  14:30  
I'm an extrovert, so like, friends are everything to me. Doubly. My dad says you don't really have hobbies or interests. It's your friends. And I'm like, Okay, you're right. You know, like, my friendships are so crucial to me, that when I go through Friendship Breakups, it's devastating. I've been more heartbroken by friends in my life than like any guy. So I think that's one of the challenges. What does friendship actually mean? You know, it's not a covenant really kinship, but what are we supposed to do in terms of commitment to one another? Like I said earlier, I have a high expectation, like, I think that commitment to your friends is sacred. So that's been a really big challenge. But at the same time, I also have a lot of really amazing friends, like the couple that I live with right now, Rachel and Carl, I feel so lucky to live with them. I think this is a good illustration of the opportunity I had, in this past year, just really praying through how I should use my time and energy and resources, and then like what I had to do for my job. So of course, my job has me traveling a lot. And there was this five month chunk of time last year that I pretty much would be gone. If I came back, I would have been back for like, four weeks, you know, so I thought maybe I'll rent out my house because I also am lucky enough to own a house. And I got the opportunity to rent it out to a refugee family through the IRC. I really think it was something God put on my heart and then open up the door for it to happen. And I just thought this is so much better of a way for me to use the resources God has given me. And then the cost for me was just to figure out where I was going to be in all the meantime. So I actually extended their lease, like through this semester, because it just made more sense. And one they like living there. So I'm like glad for that. They're awesome. Anyway, one day in August, when I kind of foresaw what was going to happen. I texted Carl, and Rachel was like, this might seem random. But can I live with you guys for a little while? And they were like, yeah, come over. Let's talk about it. And so I did. And there was no discussion, it was like, Yeah, you're gonna live with us, I think sometimes an opportunity we have is to receive the different kinds of love that are available to us. I talk about this a little bit in my book. But sometimes it was just my fault that I thought I was so unloved and so alone, I was like really blind to all the avenues of love that God was sending me. I mean, we do that whether we're married or not, but you have this wide imagination that you can have as a single person of all the ways that you can love people and be loved by them. So that even if you do get married someday, you maybe have less chance of being fooled into thinking that there's so much I don't know, so much weight on one marriage relationship. Absolutely. And I will say for the married people out there listening, your wife or your husband, that's your most important relationship for sure. I'm not saying the opposite. But also like if you're a married person, and you're like, oh, wow, there's a lot more people in my life that I want to be loving and loved by you can do it too. I mean, I'm just literally being schooled in love by this married couple. And it's amazing. It's awesome. 

Jon Steele  17:46  
You know, and your spouse might actually appreciate it if there was a little bit of a release valve, like, Please give your time and attention to somebody other than just be like, Hey, you not been around anyone else? Like yeah, exactly. It's good for us to have friends outside of just one another here. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting. We're talking on Valentine's Day. And again, it feels like there's an opportunity for what is going to be my perspective going into this. Am I going into this with a Lonely Hearts Club perspective? Or am I going into this with like, who are my friends that we can still celebrate relationship together? And in in some ways, it's almost an ad, but I'll say it this even if this isn't totally true, I'll say it this way anyways, okay. But with your friends, you are celebrating people that just time and time and time again, like no specific we stood before our parents and friends and God and said they would say to God, it's like, we're doing this just because we really love being together. And hopefully that's the case. are married friends that are listening as well. Yes. But there's something unique about that about celebrating for all this time, we have chosen to keep hanging out together, even though life changes and things would easily make it like that. I'll just find a different friend. But no, like I'm committed to my friend.

Bridget Gee  19:01  
Yeah, exactly. Felicia and Barry. They're married. And they're actually one of the couples that I claim this I match made them way back when but we were like teenagers anyway, we love Valentine's Day mutually, you know, and she was like, Hey, I love you. And I just want you to know, Happy Valentine's Day because I feel like you're my original Valentine because we were like, celebrating as little teenagers. And I I don't even know if I've had something so sweet and romantic said to me, you know, like, I like I'm gonna be thinking about it for weeks, I think because she's right. She's mine too. And it's our friendship and our friendship love that we're celebrating. I mean, you have more friends than you have spouses. I mean, hopefully...

Jon Steele  19:43  
Yes, we'll just leave it at that. Yeah, hopefully. So this brings something to my mind and I know you touched on this in your book, but I wanted us to talk about it. And that's the question of wanting and longing. If you are single and for whatever season that is, is it okay to still want to be married or whether or not you've been given a clear answer of will something else happen or not? Who knows? I mean, is there a line that you walk between surrender and hope for a specific answer?

Bridget Gee  20:12  
Absolutely. That's a great way to put it. Just that last part of the question, because my answer is yes, of course, you can want to, you can want anything, but it really doesn't mean it is going to happen or should happen, you know, because there's a lot of awful things I want as well. The book I really love. And I quote a couple times in my book is the soul of desire by Kurt Thompson. He's also known for writing the soul of shame. And the way he writes about desire just really helps you understand that it's central to who God made us to be, that we desire each other, we desire him, we desire, partnership and beauty with God. So I think the things that I have to surrender, have to deal with the lies, I believe that our culture tells us like that I am less than or a loser without romantic love and without sex. And that's something I have to surrender over and over again, and then even surrender whatever possible future I have. And I do think you can surrender your desires for sure. But desire isn't synonymous with temptation, which isn't synonymous with sin, you know, but I think we talk about all that stuff that way too much in fundamental Christianity. And I think that that was like something I had to unpack, I needed to be able to peel back those layers and see that my issue is that I have this normal desire, wanting something totally good. And then immediately shamed myself for it all the time. And it really wasn't until my buddy Daniel said to me two years in a row, Brigitte, it's okay for you to want to be married. Marriage is great in a lot of ways. So you just, you just want a great thing, the line gets crossed, when it becomes idolatry, when it's the thing that consumes you, or it's the thing that leads you to believe lies about your worth and value. And that's just an everyday walk. That's all like, you know, cuz I've been friendzone, a couple times the day after a really good first date in the last couple of months. And the ego blow that is, and again, like you said, this is a backdrop for discipleship, how I have to go to God with that and be like, Okay, what do you say about me? And back to the drawing board? You know, or like, should I take a break a little bit from focusing my energy on this particular desire?

Jon Steele  22:32  
I think that's really helpful, because this might not be the case, especially for our younger listeners. But you know, we have kind of come out of this era of 90s and early 2000s, Christian culture, which there are beautiful things to take from it. And there's stuff that we need to get rid of to. Yes. And some of that is this issue of desire that you should sort of lead this acetic lifestyle that anything that seems exciting or happy or pleasurable, bad, not for you. Exactly, exactly. You must you know, where the burlap underwear and put shards of glass in your shoes. And that's what it means to be a good Christian. No, yeah, there are hardships that we should be prepared to endure? Absolutely. Are there things that we need to be willing to say no to? Because God's called us to something different? Absolutely. But does that mean that anything that seems lovable, likeable, desirable, is absolutely off the table? No. I mean, one of the ways that God talks about his people is in this mutually loving, desirable relationship with one another. And so for us to want something like that here in human form. It's so normal that yeah, that's normal. And we can do it the wrong way. But it's normal. To not shame ourselves just because we desire something, but to be checking that with the Lord regularly is my heart in an okay place in the way that I'm wanting this? Bridget, we've only scratched the surface here. What I love about this is I feel like our conversations together, we've gotten to hear the heart behind single just because while leaving so much of it untouched for the reader to just get to soak in and enjoy. But as we think about some of these things, and the experiences that you've had, is there one piece of parting advice that you would give to someone who is about to or has just stepped into their post graduation reality as it relates to these things?

Bridget Gee  24:17  
Yeah, I would just say dream big. Whatever dream you have for your next five years, 10 years, multiply it. Even that dream you'll make up. God has better things for you. There's like one person in my life who when we were 18 said, This is what's gonna happen in the next few years. And it happened, he did it all. And I was amazed by that. And he still seemed pretty happy to but everyone else No. Life turns out so differently, and that that's a mercy in a lot of ways. And that if you're in an intimate relationship with God, it's going to be good. I say this and I really try not to sound prosperity gospel about it, because things of course are hard. The hard is when things don't turn out the way you expect. But I just hope maybe if you listen to this, and the first time a hard thing happens, you remember me saying You dream bigger, that this is what you get the room to do now is to dream bigger.

Jon Steele  25:04  
That's awesome. I love that. There's space for more things that God has in store for us are so far beyond what we could plan for ourselves.

Bridget Gee  25:12  
Yeah. And I do think he loves us that much. I just want to say that to here on Valentine's Day.

Jon Steele  25:18  
Yes, yes, a message from the past for those of you listening after Valentine's Day, but yes, absolutely. Gosh, Bridget, thank you so much. I really do believe that you are a prophetic voice and the things that you are sharing, I think that this is so on the nose again, single or not, there are discipleship things that we can learn. And there's some really cool discipleship practices at the end of each one of your chapters that we can use and apply. It's not just a vision for this pilgrimage. There are actual handholds along the way, which is really cool. So thank you so much for taking the things that you've learned and that we get to benefit from that, and hopefully have a leg up as we walk through our post graduation life. So thanks so much, also for giving time just to invest here in our alumni and to share some of these things with us today. I appreciate you so much, Bridget.

Bridget Gee  26:07  
I appreciate you. Thank you for the opportunity. I've loved this.

Musical Interlude
 
Wrap up

Jon Steele  26:12  
Now I'm not single, my wife and I have been married for almost nine years, but I remember vividly being single, I remember feeling incomplete. I remember watching people around me who were in romantic relationships and just longing to have that experience. What's interesting is that once I did find myself in dating relationships, it was inevitable that each one eventually felt unfulfilling. Being in a relationship certainly has its great joys, but it also brings about its own host of new issues and questions. And I would basically just chalk it up to being with the wrong person. Now there are definitely wrong people for us to be with and that was true and each one of those situations for me, so thank you, Lord, that I didn't end up in any of them long term. But what I was missing was exactly what Bridget is trying hard to teach us here. And the intro to her book bridge is explaining the idea of pilgrimage, which she also shared with us today. She says it's a journey to a destination, usually in the footsteps of others to return to a place you belong. And she goes on to give this clarification about the destination. I don't believe the destination of singleness is marriage contrary to everything we've been told in and outside of the church. I think the journey of singleness leads deeper into God's presence or what I like to call holy aloneness, the place where you are wholly known, wholly seen and wholly loved by your Creator. That is the place where we all belong. I so wish I'd had this perspective and had the will to lean into it when I was single, it wouldn't have magically erased the challenges that came along with singleness. And it likely wouldn't have even erased my longing to be with someone. But I think it would have reframed to the purpose of the journey, the pilgrimage, that my singleness was a time for moving deeper into the presence of God to be wholly known, seen and loved by Him. To my alumni friends out there who are single, please lean in and receive this teaching from Bridget, I'm telling you that it's the best framework for singleness that I've heard and it will lead you in the way of Jesus. And that way will be hard, I guarantee it, but it will be good. And it will be worth it. So please go pick up your copy of single just because today, there's a link to it in the show notes. And don't forget that you can take 40% Off with your alumni discount. And you can also find a link to Bridget's podcast solidarity. So give that a listen and keep learning from the master. Bridget, thanks so much for joining us this week. I am so grateful for your wisdom. It's not just single people who are learning from you. I am too. And for the rest of you come on back next week for my conversation with Anson and alumnus who is literally a rocket scientist who works for NASA. Oh man, I loved this interview. And you will too. 

Podcast Outro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)

Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Alumni. If there was anything that you learned, really enjoyed, or that encouraged you from today's episode, would you send us a DM or tag us in a story? We'd love to hear about it. You can find us @afterivpod on Instagram and Facebook. And if you haven't already, take just a second to unlock your phone and subscribe to the podcast. If your platform lets you, leave us a rating and a review. And if you like what we're doing here, share us with your InterVarsity or other post-graduation friends. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you in the after, Alumni

Transcribed by https://otter.ai